It's not easy liking anime as a medium when 99% of the content itself is woman-hating garbage. Another problem is that anime fans (including women) don't want to talk about the problems with anime and make environments too hostile to safely criticise anything. It's not tolerated to say something has nice animation/a nice plot but that it does x to its female characters.

At some point I'd like to compile a (probably short) list of anime that's good without treating female characters badly. Or maybe I'll just make a list of popular anime and then list out all the ways in which it treats female characters badly. I can't trust anime recommendations from anime fans because anime fans don't care about women.

Any other feminists out there feel that struggle?

For sure. Even stuff that is toted as realistic or a deconstruction is often steeped in misogyny (looking at you madoka magical)@eos

@Kohutt @eos

Now i am curious. How was Madoka Magika steeped in Misogyny?

So I find that part of the issue is it is mainly targeted at men (and the spin offs and games are even worse, even just looking a how sexualized some of the outfits become in the phone game) I also find that there is this weird emphasis of being girly means you're powerful but also the appearance that women cannot handle power
@saiferion @eos

They might be minor things in madoka but newer stuff that is considered "dark magical girl" seems to go harder on these gender norms, sexualization of minors and also make the suffering of the characters even worse (to the point where it feels like how much the character has suffered is the only trait they have)@saiferion @eos

@Kohutt @eos
Sexualization is the achiles heel of most Anime, and something i find distasteful.

Aside from that, i don't really think Madoka Magika was that condescending in its treatment of power and the girls wielding it. If anything it felt dark, and realistic to their young age

I mean, from the get go it starts by deconstructing the parents gender roles which seems quite a big deal for Japan. An executive mother and a stay at home dad.

Then there are the ultimate sacrifices made by each and every character, giving them the determination often lacked in the depiction of female roles or the emotional struggles they go through. They were all very relatable protagonists

Now.. i can't really defend the paraphernalis that sorrounds it (games etc.) It is really gross and often made for the sole purpose of economic gain, exploiting those objectivizing tropes again and again.

For sure, and I think my main issue with the franchise now is what is has become.

It should have stayed as it was, the way it's starting to be marketed is gross (to keep milking the show).
@saiferion @eos

@Kohutt @saiferion Thanks for your observations! I had pretty similar feelings about Madoka Magica, actually -- that it was a strong enough anime, and I enjoyed it, even if I thought some of the character motivations were whack and the hints at same sex attraction between characters were only teased for fanservice/merchandising reasons at times.

And then I saw the most recent anime, based off the mobile games. Oh boy. It's not good. I only made it halfway through the show because I couldn't go on. Even ignoring the pacing, all the weirdly detailed midriff shots of these little girls, plus how pathetic the main character was drove me NUTS. Lots of gross camera angles, too. And seriously, almost every girl in that show has an exposed midriff. And that's to say nothing of all the bikini/etc figures of Madoka Magica characters.

Legitimately, I do think when a series is marketed towards men primarily, you do have to be wary of it even if it seems relatively harmless. Case in point: K-On and the entire "cute girls doing cute things" genre, which has saturated the market. When women enjoy that genre, it's because they think it's cute. But it's usually made for men who will talk forever about their favourite teenage "waifus" who have about two braincells and never act like real humans. It's like it's the innocence of the girls that's being fetishised, and I do wonder if male fans of og Madoka Magica see it that way too.

@eos @Kohutt To be honest i haven't seen anything madoka related past the original anime.

I can more or less tell what may have happened with the follow ups and i would bet the original producer/writer wasn't involved. As always, profit may have played a part on its fetichization.

Now speaking in general, we all love cute things to some degree, and i am also willing to bet some genuinely cute series didn't intend for their characters to be sexualized. But in time subsequent deliveries may have changed their tune to catter to its most vocal demographic, which undoubtly has issues with realistic expectations and tend to warp the intentions of the product into something else.

Worst thing is, the "waifu" culture seems to be firmly rooted among the fans with spinoffs like husbando. At first i dismissed it as the longings of kids who often admire or "love" a celebrity, but it turned to be something darker.