@Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn At one point the pinnacle of technological knowledge for my ancestors was banging rocks together. My ancestors are valuable because they are my ancestors, not because they had the world figured out.
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn I think they did though. I don’t believe anything I’ve been taught about history anymore
@JoonBug @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn Just because jews lie for the sake of racial domination doesn't mean all reality is a lie, that's just schizoposting. The fact that you can get in to a car that uses internal combustion and drive to another city at 100 mph is an amazing achievement of humanity, as is the internet piping information to your computer from thousands of miles away.
@HyperboreanWave @JoonBug @JSDorn
Just because jews lie for the sake of racial domination doesn’t mean all reality is a lie, that’s just schizoposting.
ok, so you’re willing to consider that the Jews lie about the Torah and maybe the Bible, and the God that it describes, is real?
@Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug Can jewish stories be verified against reality? A manual on engines can be used to build an engine, what can jewish stories do?
@HyperboreanWave @JSDorn @JoonBug yes. Just 5 days ago there was a news article about an archeological discovery that verified a 2700 year old account from the OT. It was previously assumed to have been false (because the presumption by (((scientists))) is the rejection of God until proven otherwise). This happens again and again, they Bible isn't proven false; it's assumed false and then we get more evidence
google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/archaeology/israeli-archaeologists-reveal-secrets-of-assyrian-war-machine-that-conquered-ancient-1.10366408
google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/archaeology/israeli-archaeologists-reveal-secrets-of-assyrian-war-machine-that-conquered-ancient-1.10366408
@Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug What does a supposed war have to do with the claim of the bible to eternal life? Prove to me using material evidence, and not jewish stories, that jesus is an omnipotent god and that I gain access to eternal life by worshipping him.
@HyperboreanWave @JSDorn @JoonBug
Could you outline a standard for historical evidence that you will allow me to use? Something that doesn't also mean that we should treat Alexander the great, Hammurabi, and the Peloponnese war as falsehood. Too often people engage in tactical scepticism without realising that they standard that require of the Bible means that they couldn't affirm basic historical fact
Could you outline a standard for historical evidence that you will allow me to use? Something that doesn't also mean that we should treat Alexander the great, Hammurabi, and the Peloponnese war as falsehood. Too often people engage in tactical scepticism without realising that they standard that require of the Bible means that they couldn't affirm basic historical fact
@Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug I'm fine with treating all of those things, given that they don't have material evidence e.g. arrowheads in the field of battle, as fiction. Whether or not I believe in the campaigns of Alexander has nothing to do with me gaining eternal life, unlike what the claim of christianity is. If you're saying jesus is an omnipotent god that will grant you eternal life for believing but all you have is "some jew said this" then you're as much of a retard as the people who believe in the holocaust.
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug
So you have no beliefs that can't be materially confirmed?
You don't believe that your mother loves you? You don't believe in the concept of justice or morality?
More to the point, if I told you that there's a miraculous piece of evidence that Jesus existed and rose from the dead but it's sitting in a museum on the other side of the planet, would you believe it or tell me it's a Jewish lie?
Do you believe in UFOs? Aliens? ESP? Finland? The Holodomor? If your standard of evidence is "Jews can never have touched this" then you can't believe in anything. That's no way to live.
So you have no beliefs that can't be materially confirmed?
You don't believe that your mother loves you? You don't believe in the concept of justice or morality?
More to the point, if I told you that there's a miraculous piece of evidence that Jesus existed and rose from the dead but it's sitting in a museum on the other side of the planet, would you believe it or tell me it's a Jewish lie?
Do you believe in UFOs? Aliens? ESP? Finland? The Holodomor? If your standard of evidence is "Jews can never have touched this" then you can't believe in anything. That's no way to live.
@TinyFern @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug >So you have no beliefs that can't be materially confirmed?
Everything that can't be materially confirmed is a story. Some stories are good, some benign, and some bad. Christianity put Whites under the moral rule of jews, and hence is bad.
>You don't believe that your mother loves you?
I know my mother loves me because she does things that benefit me, and she would naturally love me because I am her descendant and responsible for propagating her bloodline.
>You don't believe in the concept of justice or morality?
I've said it before, morality = beliefs that benefit the tribe. There is no universal morality, for some animal species the "moral" thing to do is to eat their children. We are discovering what is and isn't moral, but it's pretty clear that letting the jews have control over our race has had disastrous consequences. Justice is just morality being enforced.
>More to the point, if I told you that there's a miraculous piece of evidence that Jesus existed and rose from the dead but it's sitting in a museum on the other side of the planet, would you believe it or tell me it's a Jewish lie?
If there was evidence for something but there was no way for me or any average person to confirm it then you're likely just lying.
>Do you believe in UFOs? Aliens? ESP? Finland? The Holodomor? If your standard of evidence is "Jews can never have touched this" then you can't believe in anything. That's no way to live.
I believe everything jews as a collective say is for the benefit of the jewish collective. That doesn't necessarily mean it's automatically false, but that also means that "jew said this" means nothing to me.
Everything that can't be materially confirmed is a story. Some stories are good, some benign, and some bad. Christianity put Whites under the moral rule of jews, and hence is bad.
>You don't believe that your mother loves you?
I know my mother loves me because she does things that benefit me, and she would naturally love me because I am her descendant and responsible for propagating her bloodline.
>You don't believe in the concept of justice or morality?
I've said it before, morality = beliefs that benefit the tribe. There is no universal morality, for some animal species the "moral" thing to do is to eat their children. We are discovering what is and isn't moral, but it's pretty clear that letting the jews have control over our race has had disastrous consequences. Justice is just morality being enforced.
>More to the point, if I told you that there's a miraculous piece of evidence that Jesus existed and rose from the dead but it's sitting in a museum on the other side of the planet, would you believe it or tell me it's a Jewish lie?
If there was evidence for something but there was no way for me or any average person to confirm it then you're likely just lying.
>Do you believe in UFOs? Aliens? ESP? Finland? The Holodomor? If your standard of evidence is "Jews can never have touched this" then you can't believe in anything. That's no way to live.
I believe everything jews as a collective say is for the benefit of the jewish collective. That doesn't necessarily mean it's automatically false, but that also means that "jew said this" means nothing to me.
@HyperboreanWave @TinyFern @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug
>Everything that can't be materially confirmed is a story. Some stories are good, some benign, and some bad
That says nothing about whether or not they're True, the truth value of any proposition does not depend on your subjective opinion of it.
>Everything that can't be materially confirmed is a story. Some stories are good, some benign, and some bad
That says nothing about whether or not they're True, the truth value of any proposition does not depend on your subjective opinion of it.
@cirnog @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern If you don't have any evidence for it then it cannot be TtTtttTTTTrue.
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern
> If you don't have any evidence for it then it cannot be TtTtttTTTTrue.
Let's call what you said proposition P, where is your physical evidence for proposition P? Of course there is no physical evidence for this proposition so if P is True then according to P, P is False.
> If you don't have any evidence for it then it cannot be TtTtttTTTTrue.
Let's call what you said proposition P, where is your physical evidence for proposition P? Of course there is no physical evidence for this proposition so if P is True then according to P, P is False.
@cirnog @HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern There is physical evidence for P. It would be "all of the concrete examples of there NOT being physical evidence for something and that thing being false" compared to "all of the concrete examples of there BEING physical evidence for something and that thing being true".
That doesn't mean that P is definitely true, but it is certainly evidence.
That doesn't mean that P is definitely true, but it is certainly evidence.
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern @tester dinosaurs are visible so an invisible dinosaur cannot exist. QED.
Maybe you're hallucinating or possessed by a demon.
Maybe you're hallucinating or possessed by a demon.
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern @tester It took you two days to tell me that you don't understand the Hypostatic Union. Will you ever have an argument that isn't based on your lack of understanding?
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern @tester There's only one God so no the dinosaur cannot be God. It could be a demon or possessed by one but that's besides the point. The nature of material beings is known and they do not have the properties you propose.
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern @tester give me your actual arguments instead of ironic reddit snark.
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern @tester We have historical evidence attesting to Jesus' divinity, you have no evidence of your dinosaur.
Because there is only one God you have to both prove your dinosaurs divinity AND disprove Christ's. You have done neither.
Because there is only one God you have to both prove your dinosaurs divinity AND disprove Christ's. You have done neither.
@cirnog @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern @tester >We have historical evidence attesting to Jesus' divinity, you have no evidence of your dinosaur.
What historical evidence, some jews said so? I say that Barney is divine while jesus isn't, you should listen to me over jews since jews are proven to lie for the sake of racial domination (e.g. holocaust).
>Because there is only one God you have to both prove your dinosaurs divinity AND disprove Christ's. You have done neither.
I have proven Barney's divinity as much as christians have proven jesus's. Christians have not disproven Barney's divinity so why do I have to "disprove" that of jesus (it's not on me to disprove something that hasn't been proven)?
What historical evidence, some jews said so? I say that Barney is divine while jesus isn't, you should listen to me over jews since jews are proven to lie for the sake of racial domination (e.g. holocaust).
>Because there is only one God you have to both prove your dinosaurs divinity AND disprove Christ's. You have done neither.
I have proven Barney's divinity as much as christians have proven jesus's. Christians have not disproven Barney's divinity so why do I have to "disprove" that of jesus (it's not on me to disprove something that hasn't been proven)?
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern @tester
>you should listen to me over jews since jews are proven to lie for the sake of racial domination (e.g. holocaust).
that's post hoc ergo propter hoc. You haven't proven the apostles untrustworthy.
You don't take the barney argument seriously so neither do I. Present your genuine beliefs instead of thinking that irony is an argument.
>you should listen to me over jews since jews are proven to lie for the sake of racial domination (e.g. holocaust).
that's post hoc ergo propter hoc. You haven't proven the apostles untrustworthy.
You don't take the barney argument seriously so neither do I. Present your genuine beliefs instead of thinking that irony is an argument.
@cirnog @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern @tester >that's post hoc ergo propter hoc
You haven't proven testimony of jews on these sorts of things to be valid, and there is evidence of it not being valid, so I take their testimony to not be valid. If you're just saying "correlation is not causation" then you've conceded the argument, since that's just a general nihilistic deconstruction of our ability to know anything and not something particular to this case. If you believe that correlation is not causation then why not drink some bleach, since afterall we can never really KNOW anything right?
>You don't take the barney argument seriously so neither do I. Present your genuine beliefs instead of thinking that irony is an argument.
The Barney thing is an iron-manning of your argument. If you can't even defeat Barney then how can you say that your religion is any more valid than Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc?
You haven't proven testimony of jews on these sorts of things to be valid, and there is evidence of it not being valid, so I take their testimony to not be valid. If you're just saying "correlation is not causation" then you've conceded the argument, since that's just a general nihilistic deconstruction of our ability to know anything and not something particular to this case. If you believe that correlation is not causation then why not drink some bleach, since afterall we can never really KNOW anything right?
>You don't take the barney argument seriously so neither do I. Present your genuine beliefs instead of thinking that irony is an argument.
The Barney thing is an iron-manning of your argument. If you can't even defeat Barney then how can you say that your religion is any more valid than Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc?
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern @tester
>You haven't proven testimony of jews on these sorts of things to be valid
Historians have. You haven't proven that your skepticism is warranted.
> If you're just saying "correlation is not causation"
I'm not. I'm saying you're an idiot.
>The Barney thing is an iron-manning of your argument
No its a word game where you replace the object with a completely different object and point out that the new sentense is nonsensical. You've taken a shit on the carpet and told me it stinks, great job.
>You haven't proven testimony of jews on these sorts of things to be valid
Historians have. You haven't proven that your skepticism is warranted.
> If you're just saying "correlation is not causation"
I'm not. I'm saying you're an idiot.
>The Barney thing is an iron-manning of your argument
No its a word game where you replace the object with a completely different object and point out that the new sentense is nonsensical. You've taken a shit on the carpet and told me it stinks, great job.
@cirnog @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern @tester >Historians have. You haven't proven that your skepticism is warranted.
There are historians that say jewish eyewitness testimony of the holocaust is valid, so what do you mean?
>No its a word game where you replace the object with a completely different object and point out that the new sentense is nonsensical. You've taken a shit on the carpet and told me it stinks, great job.
Not really, I'm not a jew so what I'm saying is more valid than the testimony of jews, you should believe in Barney more so than jesus.
There are historians that say jewish eyewitness testimony of the holocaust is valid, so what do you mean?
>No its a word game where you replace the object with a completely different object and point out that the new sentense is nonsensical. You've taken a shit on the carpet and told me it stinks, great job.
Not really, I'm not a jew so what I'm saying is more valid than the testimony of jews, you should believe in Barney more so than jesus.
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @TinyFern @tester I'm saying, may God forgive me for this phrase, all your arguments are non sequitors and you don't understand logic.
Please just eat turkey with your family instead of being wrong online.
Please just eat turkey with your family instead of being wrong online.
@cirnog @HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @tester
Let's explore Barney the dinosaur.
If he's God in the purest sense, you'd expect him to be the single, omnipotent creator of the universe. He exists beyond the constraints of physics - is not limited by space or time but can see and control them absolutely.
You would expect that he wouldn't be any particular colour or shape, because he wouldn't have the characteristics of physical matter - that's a limiting property. You wouldn't expect that he would be a species which is also limited by space and time, because otherwise he can't be God, so he can't be a dinosaur.
So Barney is not purple or a dinosaur.
Now we have a Prime Mover, an eternal being which we can both agree on but which I would call the LORD or the Father.
How does Barney address the problem of evil? Why did Barney create a world which is full of pain, suffering and death?
The only satisfactory explanation I've seen is that Barney wants us to have free will. And what is Barneys plan to reconcile humans to himself and make them perfect while allowing them free will?
Hint: there's eyewitness testimony of it from multiple sources.
Let's explore Barney the dinosaur.
If he's God in the purest sense, you'd expect him to be the single, omnipotent creator of the universe. He exists beyond the constraints of physics - is not limited by space or time but can see and control them absolutely.
You would expect that he wouldn't be any particular colour or shape, because he wouldn't have the characteristics of physical matter - that's a limiting property. You wouldn't expect that he would be a species which is also limited by space and time, because otherwise he can't be God, so he can't be a dinosaur.
So Barney is not purple or a dinosaur.
Now we have a Prime Mover, an eternal being which we can both agree on but which I would call the LORD or the Father.
How does Barney address the problem of evil? Why did Barney create a world which is full of pain, suffering and death?
The only satisfactory explanation I've seen is that Barney wants us to have free will. And what is Barneys plan to reconcile humans to himself and make them perfect while allowing them free will?
Hint: there's eyewitness testimony of it from multiple sources.
@TinyFern @cirnog @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @tester >Now we have a Prime Mover, an eternal being which we can both agree on but which I would call the LORD or the Father.
To this and prior, I'm saying that Barney is the form that the omnipotent god appeared to me, and let's assume that he had a bunch of commandments/things to say just like jesus did. Why is my revelation of Barney less legitimate than that of jewish account of jesus?
>How does Barney address the problem of evil? Why did Barney create a world which is full of pain, suffering and death?
Barney says those things are a test for your soul. Hell he could even say that all of these things that you experience in this life is something you signed up to experience before you were born, and the divine Barney test being how your soul reacts to them from a slate of ignorance.
To this and prior, I'm saying that Barney is the form that the omnipotent god appeared to me, and let's assume that he had a bunch of commandments/things to say just like jesus did. Why is my revelation of Barney less legitimate than that of jewish account of jesus?
>How does Barney address the problem of evil? Why did Barney create a world which is full of pain, suffering and death?
Barney says those things are a test for your soul. Hell he could even say that all of these things that you experience in this life is something you signed up to experience before you were born, and the divine Barney test being how your soul reacts to them from a slate of ignorance.
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @cirnog @tester
Ok so my big question would be: why does Barney manifest for you at all? What is the purpose of him physically incarnating in this universe instead of existing outside it and sending you visions or speaking directly to your mind?
Jesus incarnated to die and atone for sin, to publicly perform many miracles which attest to His divinity and power, to confront the Jewish authorities at the time and clearly establish for large groups what His doctrine is going forward. Christianity was waiting for Christ before it could become a global religion, and there's a very logical set of reasons why (which we can explore if you want). Jesus came publicly, attested by a variety of sources, because the things He wanted to do were necessarily public and He needed to be incarnate to do them. After his death and resurrection, people went out to share the good news.
Why would Barney become incarnate and how does the form of a purple dinosaur help him in this goal?
Ok so my big question would be: why does Barney manifest for you at all? What is the purpose of him physically incarnating in this universe instead of existing outside it and sending you visions or speaking directly to your mind?
Jesus incarnated to die and atone for sin, to publicly perform many miracles which attest to His divinity and power, to confront the Jewish authorities at the time and clearly establish for large groups what His doctrine is going forward. Christianity was waiting for Christ before it could become a global religion, and there's a very logical set of reasons why (which we can explore if you want). Jesus came publicly, attested by a variety of sources, because the things He wanted to do were necessarily public and He needed to be incarnate to do them. After his death and resurrection, people went out to share the good news.
Why would Barney become incarnate and how does the form of a purple dinosaur help him in this goal?
@TinyFern @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @cirnog @tester The story of original sin is a jewish story, and jesus comes as a character to supposedly resolve that issue. I could come up with a story that necessitates Barney's coming, or have him resolve some issue in the current zeitgeist.
For example hypothetically I could say that Barney appeared to me to deliver the message that must be spread that the White race needs to awaken to the fact that they are God's chosen people, deport all the jews to madagascar, and begin colonizing the stars. Omnipotent God chose to appear as a purple dinosaur because in the process of galactic colonization there will be discovered an alien race which Aryans must interbreed with, and the first-born child of this union will be the physical form of Barney, who will proceed to rule all of sentient life in the galaxy. The Barney religion will become the world's religion and in fact all of humanity was waiting for this revelation, you are lucky to be hearing it first-hand.
Or if you want a less fanciful tale we could just take any of the existing religions in the world, some with a bigger following than christianity, and ask why is the story of christianity more valid.
For example hypothetically I could say that Barney appeared to me to deliver the message that must be spread that the White race needs to awaken to the fact that they are God's chosen people, deport all the jews to madagascar, and begin colonizing the stars. Omnipotent God chose to appear as a purple dinosaur because in the process of galactic colonization there will be discovered an alien race which Aryans must interbreed with, and the first-born child of this union will be the physical form of Barney, who will proceed to rule all of sentient life in the galaxy. The Barney religion will become the world's religion and in fact all of humanity was waiting for this revelation, you are lucky to be hearing it first-hand.
Or if you want a less fanciful tale we could just take any of the existing religions in the world, some with a bigger following than christianity, and ask why is the story of christianity more valid.
@HyperboreanWave @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @cirnog @tester
I think you're going to struggle to come up with logical reasons why Barney would have done things in the way he did.
You're going to suggest that actually there's better options in the world religions, but fail to mention them because you don't know enough theology to bring them into it. Let me save you some time and tell you that Christianity is the most defensible portrayal of an omnipotent God which exists.
You keep telling me how much smarter you are, so I'm sure you'll deflect into pointing and laughing at some 'absurdity' in the Bible but it will be a transparent ploy. Here's the truth: God loves you but, like a parent, He's disappointed in the things that you choose to be. He wants you to be a better person, to be a light to the world around you instead of the muckraking troll which you're currently acting like. He wants better from you and He wants better for you.
You're rebelling against Him. It's immature but we've all been there. Why don't you tell me the real reason you hate God instead of throwing these tantrums?
I think you're going to struggle to come up with logical reasons why Barney would have done things in the way he did.
You're going to suggest that actually there's better options in the world religions, but fail to mention them because you don't know enough theology to bring them into it. Let me save you some time and tell you that Christianity is the most defensible portrayal of an omnipotent God which exists.
You keep telling me how much smarter you are, so I'm sure you'll deflect into pointing and laughing at some 'absurdity' in the Bible but it will be a transparent ploy. Here's the truth: God loves you but, like a parent, He's disappointed in the things that you choose to be. He wants you to be a better person, to be a light to the world around you instead of the muckraking troll which you're currently acting like. He wants better from you and He wants better for you.
You're rebelling against Him. It's immature but we've all been there. Why don't you tell me the real reason you hate God instead of throwing these tantrums?
@TinyFern @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @cirnog @tester >I think you're going to struggle to come up with logical reasons why Barney would have done things in the way he did.
My story seems far more logically consistent than the story of the bible. An omnipotent god that creates humanity, but then genocides most of it because he doesn't like how it turned out? Jesus dying somehow making up for that? Face it, those things are taken as true not because they make logical sense, but because you are steeped in christianity and have to bend logic around in order to fit it.
My story seems far more logically consistent than the story of the bible. An omnipotent god that creates humanity, but then genocides most of it because he doesn't like how it turned out? Jesus dying somehow making up for that? Face it, those things are taken as true not because they make logical sense, but because you are steeped in christianity and have to bend logic around in order to fit it.
@HyperboreanWave @TinyFern @Christ_is_Lord @JSDorn @JoonBug @tester
>My story seems far more logically consistent
Your opinion is not an argument and has no bearing on Truth.
>My story seems far more logically consistent
Your opinion is not an argument and has no bearing on Truth.
Follow
@cirnog @Christ_is_Lord @HyperboreanWave @JoonBug @JSDorn @tester @TinyFern
>"I find this makes sense"
>"Well I find it makes sense that you finding it makes sense is just an opinion"
Why are you saying your opinion like it means anything
if you're like wave in that you don't understand logic then you're going to lose every argument you have by default.