@dave
From by-plane to f-35 is move towards simplicity?
From bike to motorcycle is towards simplicity?
How about from hoe to combine?
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave
My point still stands though, since now, we are adding layers into the code, as well as encryption, virtualization, networking etc...
Yes, the complex tools do add ""some"" more tools to the common people too, but the edge is always moving towards more complex and powerful.
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave
But I disagree with that too
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave
My mom cannot even keep up with the number of passwords she has to remember. She cannot go to a shop without both phone and 30 different cards.
Our government just decided to require all entrepreneurs to use their broken new mail, because why the fuck not?
Every single "benefit" that tbe technology brings comes at the cost of 20 little inconveniences that are already far beyond what most people, including me, can handle.
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave
Instead of just sanding me 20 photos my dad got through Telegram, he had to find some complicated way to download all 20 of them individually, since he couldn't even do it on mass, only so he can send them to me by e-mail, only because his favorite communication method was not one of 20 that I happen to be using.
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave
But not easier, then downloading photos at once, and sending them again.
This problem was purely caused by the "simplification of UI", that was also made for the sole purpose of making people dependent on that singular app.
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave
50 years ago...
Yeah.... no.
Just no.
You're asking about an impossible standard now, since the technology wasn't even part of their life 50 years ago.
What are you even trying to argue about, if you have to go to 1970?
Let's use your previous example.
You have taken a picture that you want to share with your family. Doing so today is a much simpler process than it was 50 years ago.
Another example that is closer to what the twitter-user in Dave's post meant:
Compared to 10 years ago, getting your cellphone to play a specific song from your music application is easier. Back then you had to navigate into the app, find the specific album and then the right song.
Today you just give a voice command "[Activation]. Play [song] from [application]"
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave
I seriously cannot tell if you're joking. 
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave
But our lives are going the singular way towards ridiculously more complex in every way I can observe. 
Downloading digital media rather then acquiring it physically, having a computer calculate my taxes rather than doing it myself and using a payment card to do grocery shopping instead of having to pay in cash.
All three are examples of technological solutions that are less complex than their older (but still available) alternatives.
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave
Downloading media is MORE cognitively complex and knowledge dependent, then buying a CD.
And digitalization does allow for ever more increasing complexity of tax codes, that require increased ammount of datapoints, that are getting near impossible to calculate by hand.
I have no idea what half of the required datapoints even mean... You know... Simple fucking shit.
Keeping knowledge and details of many different systems and juggling them is objectively hard.
Performing the same motion in a similar manner in repeated and streamlined environment is easier.
Time cost aside, one old ways worked universally, while modern are often unique, that causes fatigue.
@white_male @dave @Jens_Rasmussen
You buy cd, put it in cd player, the cd is played.
vs
You open web browser. What is web browser?
Go to search engine? What is search engine?
Enter correct terms. (I guess this part is equivalent to talking to people in the shop)
You download Smells-like-teeth-spirit.exe
You find it on the disk... You have to have an understanding of file systems.
You press enter.
Congrats, you bricked your PC, because you didn't know what is a .exe
This is a cognitive clusterfuck.
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave @white_male
Yes, and you DID with your steam game example.
But I seriously cannot believe you don't see the point, that normal human needs increasingly more of specialized knowledge to do even simpler tasks every fucking time a new technology is introduced to his life.
The required knowledge to do the same thing with newer tools is different, but not necessarily more complex.
Have you seen the video of two zoomers trying and failing to understand how to use a phone with an old fashioned dial?
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave @white_male
Yet, the required knowledge can be described in..... 3 sentences?
Now, I know you're just trolling.
You did not give an example of something that has gotten more complex with technological advances. And while I am sure you can find some things where it is the case, I can also name examples where things have gotten simpler, as I already have.
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave @white_male
I gave many examples, and phones are actually the best one. Now, go back to the cave.
Phones have gotten more complex because they have more features, but operating features that old and new phones have in common is equally - if not less - complex as in the past.
You, I and older people only find the newer operating modes more complex because we've had to re-learn something we already knew how to do in the past.
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave @white_male
No, I could spend days trying to teach my grandma to make a call with a touch display.
I get, that you don't see it, since you live it, but touch displays are fucking insane brain drain. There was also no "phone app" needed in the dial up phone. No password either. And you didn't have to be careful not to touch a bad part of phone with your face while calling.
The user experience is "decades apart". (sorry for the joke)
I was comparing smart phones with mobile phones from 15 years ago. Which has one added step, assuming you don't use voice control.
If you compare making a phone call with an old fashioned wired phone to making a phone call with a smartphone the there have indeed been more steps added to the process, assuming no voice control.
>His grandmother cannot use touch screens
Skill issue, mine can
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave @white_male
SKILL ISSUE IS THE ENTIRE FUCKING TOPIC!!!
I cannot even say "not an argument". It is literally you admitting defeat.
Lack of smartphones doesn't work well with digitalization either.
Impulse buying at the store gets you a product, that's it. Impulse buying in the web leaves you hanging with account/subscription you will soon abandon.
I've never heard a person to complain about difficulty navigating a store for whatever they need, all the same and familiar typically, but loyalty programs upend that.
@Jens_Rasmussen @dave
Walking is neither unnatural, nor is it draining on brain. It is a REST for your brain.
What are you even talking about anymore?
I disagree.
I go to the Steam store and type in "Age of Wonders 4", the game immediately show up, and I can buy it with a few clicks. Takes me less than a minute and no brain power.
In the past I would have to go to the mall, which is a 10 minute walk for me, and find the game on the shelves. Seeing as how I am being generous and using a recent release as my example finding it will probably not be too difficult, but it could be if I chose an older or more obscure title, the game might not even be in the store at all. After buying the game I'd be going home again, another 10 minute walk.
Takes me at least 20 minutes and anywhere between minimal and some brain power, depending on how hard I have to look. The modern option is much more convenient.
>digitalization does allow for ever more increasing complexity of tax codes, that require increased ammount of datapoints, that are getting near impossible to calculate by hand
I believe that the complexity of tax-codes we see today would have happened either way. Complex, symbolic, targeted and simply stupid taxes are not an invention if the digital age, and their bureaucratic difficulties are not new either.