- https://the-mad-pirate-prints.teemill.com/
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@TheMadPirate @Nonetrix
I love how you people miss the point when talking to terfs... They're biological fundamentalists. For them gender = sex and that's it. They don't make the same distinction between the two that you probably do.
Lets see. System A exists. Then system B naturally emerges from system A. Later, we see new instanses of system B that was created without deriving from A. Some people deny that the B system exists, because only the A-derived Bs are regarded as legitimate and hence it must be regarded as just 1 system, A-B (aka just A)?
Even if one regarded only A-derived Bs one should be able to recognize Bs existence.
I dont get it. I failed to find figure out their reasoning on this attempt.
@kuken @Nonetrix @TheMadPirate
Your example is pretty good. They recognize that trans-women are a phenomenon, but because they are not derived from females, they don't accept that trans-women are women. For terfs trans-women are always men, because trans-women derive from males just like men do.
In effect the two concepts: sex and gender, are one and the same for them.
@kuken @Nonetrix @TheMadPirate
The way I understand a terf position on the behavior aspect of it, is that only "true women" aka females can truly behave feminine, as femininity is biologically intrinsic of females, while trans-women perform, pretend, or act, as if they're feminine.
It's like the difference between someone being a firefighter and a hollywood actor pretending to be one for a movie. The "act" can be quite convincing, but at the end of the day it's an act, and the actor is not an actual firefighter.
Ultimately the idea would be that while trans-women can emulate feminine behavior, they need to force themselves to some extent to create that act (or they're faking it), while for females, femininity would come naturally as a consequence of their biology. And basically they don't care about the false act, what terfs see as playing pretend, so they don't see a value in having behavior included in the definition of gender. Their view is that true feminine behavior already arises from the female sex by itself, so only the sex matters.
>The concept of "femininity" for radical feminist theory is purely cultural and socially constructed.
This is retarded marxist judeo babble
You said you were in that community so can you clarify how exactly femininity is purely a social construct when in fact women exist regardless of cultural and blah blah blah
Okay but I don't understand what radfems are angry about, is it that they are expected to look or behave feminine according to cultural norms? If they want to deconstruct femininity how is that not congruent with the trans agenda, for example?
Maybe you're not doing a good job of explaining this because I'm not making much sense of what you're saying. Why would they want to abolish the female sex class just so men could say they are women and be gay? Like if the idea is total equality where everybody ignores biological realities because that leads to such horrible oppression like expecting women to look nice then why have the distinction man or woman at all, just call yourself a human and be done with it.
@MoralPanic @RikaDerufu @Nonetrix @alyx @kuken Because they are essentially Marxists. In feminist theory Marx’s class struggle between bourgeoisies and proletarians becomes a sex class struggle between males and females ( with females being the “oppressed” class ).
Marx’s utopia is reached when all social classes are abolished and everyone becomes “equals”, therefore feminist’s utopia is reached when all “gender” classes are abolished and everyone becomes “equal”.
Just as Marx disregards Human Behavior applied to Economy, feminists disregard Sexual Dimorphism applied to Society. In both cases, this is driven by an effort to ignore the natural emergence of hierarchies via division of labor.
@RikaDerufu @MoralPanic @Nonetrix @alyx @kuken
…”deconstructing femininity” means women are no longer demanded to perform femininity.
TRANSLATION : to make women become men, even when their hormones push them into the opposite direction.
@RikaDerufu @MoralPanic @Nonetrix @alyx @kuken My message to TERFs is : You only got what you fucking deserved, you created a monster by promoting the pseudo-scientific social constructivism and now you don’t know how to stop it.
Trans activism is the Golem that Second Wave feminists created.
@ArdanianRight @MoralPanic @Nonetrix @RikaDerufu @alyx @kuken Indeed it does. They are already feeling the consequences of it. Just look at how fast “trans-women” wiped clean almost every female sport they were allowed to participate.
@ArdanianRight @MoralPanic @Nonetrix @RikaDerufu @alyx @kuken That might actually improve their TV audience ratings.
Women used to be queens. Now they're mostly crazy assholes.
No, no, they are angry about what they perceive is an "invasion" of males into the power positions they "fought so hard to achieve". Given that radfem is about displacing males from positions of power, they see trannies climbing up to positions of influence as a "threat" to their agenda.
For example, getting female diversity job quotas, only to have those quotas being taken over by trannies.
@mystik @MoralPanic @Nonetrix @RikaDerufu @alyx @kuken And why do you think @kekservative is full on cheering on TERFs ?
on terfs? you got me all confused mate, I cheer on trannies
@kekservative @MoralPanic @Nonetrix @RikaDerufu @alyx @kuken @mystik Either way, both groups will just self-destruct because of their irrational mindset. But thanks for correcting me. It still fun to watch though.
@kekservative @MoralPanic @Nonetrix @RikaDerufu @alyx @kuken @mystik I.e. Letting the Golem destruct its creator, so we can let the Golem self-destruct later.
The problem with that is this :
a) It totally dismisses the effects of estrogen, progesterone and prolactine in females behavior and b) it also dismisses the brain difference between males and females ( volumen, ruggedness, type and distribution of neural pathways, neural physiology, etc ).
And no matter how much scientific evidence is presented of sexual dimorphism, feminists will still shrug and claim is not true.
That's why I said the feminazis left themselves into a corner.
Trans activism is the natural evolution of the core social constructivism upon which feminist theory is build upon, therefore, TERFs have drove themselves into a contradictory position : to be biological determinism for some arguments and flip back to social constructivism for others. That leaves them in a constant flip-flop from which they can never safely escape. And in the end, they end up becoming their own worst enemy, when their own arguments are used against them ( if "women are made, not born" then "trans-women" are also "made, not born" since femininity is a social construct and as such then "trans-women are real women because the made themselves to be one" ).
No, because that would contradict more fundamental tenets of their philosophy. Mainly Simone du Bouviear claim that "women are not born, they are made". So if they accept that behavior and sex are different but hierarchically related they would also have to accept nature's division of labor and hence "traditional gender roles", which they will never ever do.
So..... what TERFs so is turn things around, and attack trannies as part of their "dismantling of traditional gender roles" in the sense of removing all biological males from position of influence even those that dress and act like women.
Doesnt it then follow that they could admit to sex and gender being different concepts, but still maintain their position by saying that only physical females can do genuine behavioral femininity?
Im just looking for any reasonable way to hold the view that sex and gender are the same. I just cant generate a mental framework to say that those two definitions are equivalent. Basically, I wanna play devils advocate on behalf of some of the anti-trans, but i just cant find an angle.