@Terry @alyx @graf @pasture “According to the big brains it doesn’t grant you immunity” A lie, or provide citations. “it doesn’t prevent you from transmitting the virus” That’s undetermined because it’s hard or dangerous to figure out, but early results look good. “and you’ll still have to be in quarantine” That’s of course not a medical issue.

@Terry @alyx @graf @pasture You think we might have learned a thing or two about COVID-19 immunity in the nine months since self-admitted liar Saint Fauci said that…?

@Terry @alyx @graf @pasture “In the following article I posted they literally said they don’t know” how long immunity will last.

Which following article, and check my other comment about how by definition you learn this a day at a time.

@Terry @alyx @graf @pasture This may come as a surprise, but you only learn for real how long the protection from a vaccine lasts a day at a time…. We’re now up to six months for the mRNA ones and they’re looking very good so far.

@Terry @alyx @graf @pasture “And what happens if you’re wrong?”

About what? You need to be more specific.

@Terry @alyx @graf @pasture “What about [my being wrong about] adverse side effects?”

Again, be specific if you want specific answers.

See also my comment that I try to make in every discussion that when we’re talking about giving any drug or biologic to tens of millions of people, these adverse side effects will include people being maimed and killed.

Think about that every time you get prescribed a medicine you’ve never taken before, especially if it’s from a family of medicines that’s novel to you. That is, if for example one variety of penicillin is OK for you, the general family of β-lactam antibiotics including the wonderful cephalosporins are probably going to be OK. But some say that today the FDA would have not approved penicillin due to for example its potential for allergic reactions.

@antifag @Terry @alyx @graf @pasture I don’t think it was ever intended to be a biological weapon by the PRC/CCP/Wuhan Institute of Virology/Saint Fauci funding the latter while avoiding the oversight board, but of course that doesn’t mean it can’t be used as such….

@Terry @icedquinn @pasture @graf
HOW DARE THEY NOT GIVE THE VACCINE AWAY FOR FREE! THE NERVE OF SOME PEOPLE... ACTUALLY TRYING TO COVER THE COSTS OF MAKING MILLIONS OF VACCINES! THEY SHOULD JUST LOOSE THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IT TAKES TO DEVELOP AND PRODUCE THESE THINGS! IT'S FOR THE BETTER GOOD! QUICKLY, WE MUST ENFORCE SOCIALISM FOR THIS SPECIFIC FIELD OF OUR ECONOMY!

@icedquinn @Terry @pasture @graf
Considering how stupid some posts have been here, I thought we already reached that point.

@Terry @icedquinn @alyx @graf @pasture “these companies made a killing”

NOT AZ. Oxford insisted that any company licensing their hasn’t worked for eight years technology that for COVID-19 also doesn’t take advantage of 18 years of research into SARS type coronaviruses do it at cost. Thus no Western company with vaccine experience was willing to touch it with a ten foot pole, and I get the impression AZ was pressured into it by the U.K. government. Something they’re sorely regretting now.

@Terry @icedquinn @alyx @graf @pasture “but I should definitely trust these other companies that have NEAR TOTAL IMMUNITY”

Depends on where you are. In the US, it’s a practical requirement, the government is cheap but not willing to rein in our insane civil legal system, so since the 1980s when we were in the process of running out of companies willing to make pertussis (whooping cough) vaccines we created a “vaccine court,” and another was created for emergencies like this. They of course are still subject to civil and criminal liability from the government, and the people running contract manufacturer Emergent BioSolutions (EBS) should be … harshly punished. But since their core competency is politics no matter who’s in the White House….

See my other comments for why Oxford’s vaccine is probably the least desirable Western one that’s anywhere far along, although it’s not completely awful (but per the above about EBS, don’t take any made in the USA).

@icedquinn @Terry @pasture @graf
Looks like unverified BS. How you could have more trust in this is beyond me.

@icedquinn @alyx @Terry @graf @pasture

Oxford’s vaccine which AZ is making and distributing at cost isn’t quite that bad, but it’s certainly the worst Western vaccine assuming we trust what Russia is saying about Sputnik V (and recently I read they didn’t make a serious effort to solicit side effects in their very clever Phase III trial).

It uses a platform that failed for eight years, in other words it’s been a grift for the strong women in the Jenner Institute until 2020. It does not use a stabilized spike protein, so you can’t really compare it to the other Western vaccines (although I haven’t run down a claim Sputnik V also does this). Thus it might cause bad adverse events you won’t see in other Western vaccines.

Unlike Sputnik V and Janssen one jab, it probably loses efficacy especially in the official three weeks between doses regimen from an alerted immune system attacking its mostly chimpanzee viral vector. DO NOT TAKE ANY MADE IN THE USA DOSES OF IT, for a notoriously bad company was making them until they cross contaminated 15 million doses of Janssen with it (more details on request, or just read the New York Times articles).

As for RADVAC, I’d kinda like to see a 30,000 subject FDA Phase III trial before attempting to make and vaccinate myself with this DIY vaccine. Both safety although it sounds Mostly Harmless, but mostly efficacy, they can’t have anything but surrogate endpoints, as in bloodwork proving an antibody response, to indicate if it, you know, actually works.

@Terry @alyx @graf @icedquinn @pasture I guess I shouldn’t tell you about how many people who get COVID-19 infections get blood clots?

And the very weird thing is that they’re of all sizes (not sure if that’s true for individual patients or a spread of them), from the usual macro which AZ/Oxford is being punished about, I assure you more because of EU politics than anything else, but then again it uses an unstabilized spike protein), to very scary microclots in your lungs and/or heart.

To repeat, there are no safe options.

@Terry @alyx @graf @icedquinn @pasture You’re a liar and getting blocked after this reply: the Case Fatality Rate (CFR) is 1.8% in the US per Wikipedia just now, which matches everything else I’ve heard. The Infected Fatality Rate (IFR, includes unconfirmed cases) is not going to be four orders of magnitude below that.

@antifag @Terry @alyx @graf @icedquinn @pasture “it’s only serious if you’re fat or old.”

Only if you mean that in a very limited statistical sense. And since you’ve admitted you realize you can give it to other people, you’re not free of the obligation one way or another to avoid giving it to people who are “far or old.”

(That’s what masking is about, limiting people’s ability to give it to others. Plus the curve must stay bent so we don’t run out of hospital capacity and thus start losing people unnecessarily, although we’re probably over that hump. But at one point in 2020 it got damned bad in my local region, no free COVID-19 beds in 150 miles in all directions.)