@Eris
You hair is a person? You've reached peak idiocy, just so you can refuse to admit that you're wrong about an inconsequential thing that doesn't even necessarily threaten your abortion argument.

@alyx

>You hair is a person?
Yes. My foot is also a person: me.
>You've reached peak idiocy
Are you implying these statements are idiotic? They are true.

@Eris
You literally started with "person is a DISCRETE human being" and ended up with "hair is person" JUST so you don't admit you could be wrong about something.

@alyx I'm not wrong and gaslighting won't convince me I am.

@Eris
You gaslight yourself in changing your own definition of "person".

@alyx How has my definition changed?
You are pre-emptively saying "your argument is ridiculous" without saying how and assuming i will just agree. Very silly way to behave.

@Eris
You've started our discussion by stating that distinct human beings is what constitutes a person.
Now you're stating that body parts of a human (as opposed to a full distinct human being) is what constitutes a person.
You're contradicting yourself.
Not to mention that the first thing people will think about when hearing "person" is a distinct individual functioning mind. It's why we don't really call a skeleton or a putrefying body a person anymore. And last I checked, your foot doesn't have a mind of it's own.

@alyx

>You've started our discussion by stating that distinct human beings is what constitutes a person.
Yes.
>Now you're stating that body parts of a human (as opposed to a full distinct human being) is what constitutes a person.
Yes.
>You're contradicting yourself.
How? What's the contradiction? Both are true. The latter is an elaboration of the former.

@alyx

Is a slice of cake cake?

@Eris @alyx yes

@Eris
A slice of cake is a slice of cake. It is not a distinct individual cake. A slice of cake does not share all properties of the full cake. Yes, it does share some properties, but not all of them.

@alyx

>A slice of cake is a slice of cake. It is not a distinct individual cake.
I didn't ask if it was a distinct individual cake. I asked if it is cake.
If it is cake (it is) then it is necessarily part of some distinct individual cake.

@Eris @alyx assume the slice of cake has a cherry. If you take that cherry, is thr cherry itself a cake?

@critical @alyx Yes.

@Eris @alyx if you take a cherry from a tree are you eating a cherry or a tree?

@critical @alyx Both.

@Eris @alyx if we divide the cherry again and again and again, down to the atomic level, is a single atom a cherry and a tree?

@critical @alyx Yes.

@Eris @alyx since we are all made of atoms, are we all cherries and trees?

@critical @alyx No.

@Eris @alyx why?

@critical @alyx Why would they be?

@critical @Eris
Don't... just don't... run while you still can.

@alyx @critical Dude, either play the game or leave the field.

@alyx @Eris run away with me. There's no point in staying here. It's a hopeless situation.

@critical @alyx Why is it hopeless?

@critical @Eris
I think I'm gonna. I was looking to see if there's any other interesting post I'm interested in replying to, but there's not really. The closest is one where he proves he doesn't even know how Christians think on the topic and why they say they value life so much (hint: it's because they believe in souls granted to each of us by god, and as god is sacred, then the soul must be sacred, and if the soul is sacred, than the human life that was given a soul is sacred).

@critical @Eris
I would advise against trying to argue with him. He's beyond hope. I stopped giving it a serious go a good couple of posts ago.

@alyx @critical Go back to giving it a serious go and see how it goes.

@Eris @critical
With you? I'd rather have a discussion with your foot at this point.

@alyx @critical Why are you still here then

@alyx @critical Also, why are you suddenly so aggressive?

@Eris @critical
Both of you basically called me a murderer, and I'm the aggressive one.

@alyx @critical We see you as a murderer, or at least an advocate for it. We're still here arguing with you.

@alyx @critical

Us: Here are our arguments, and our arguments against your arguments
You: LOL? You think THAT?! I stopped taking you seriously ages ago!!!!

I love it when someone comes along to perfectly illustrate my point.

@Eris @alyx @critical You called it hours ago, its truly amazing.

@Eris @critical
Your argument is "a foot is a person". I think I've stated clear enough why that is ridiculous. There is nowhere further to take this. Heck, I've said there's no where this discussion can go as soon as you equated being a person to being human.

When definitions are fundamentally different, any further discussions cannot occur, because we'll simply misunderstand what the other person is trying to say. This is why I started this by scoping out what your definition of person is, because my arguments regarding abortion are around personhood. I believe the human status on it's own is simply not a solid enough ground to defend either a ban on abortion or abortion itself (and I believe the human status is not good enough, because even a single strand of hair, from a long ago dead person can still be human, but we wouldn't care that much about someone trying to kill them now).

We need something fundamentally different, something "higher" to base our arguments on. I believe Christians would choose "the soul" as that something. I choose personhood. In my view of the concept, personhood shares traits of "soul". For instance, while a human being, the body, could be duplicated through cloning, the personhood or a soul would be distinct and unique, each and every time. Also, while a foot is human, it would not be a person and it would not have a soul.

@alyx @critical

>I think I've stated clear enough why that is ridiculous
I don't think you have. I don't think you've really stated it at all, let alone clearly.
>Heck, I've said there's no where this discussion can go as soon as you equated being a person to being human.
Why is that a terminal point in the conversation to you? It's a perfectly reasonable statement.
>When definitions are fundamentally different, any further discussions cannot occur, because we'll simply misunderstand what the other person is trying to say.
That's silly. It's very easy to have such a discussion. I'm doing it with you, why can't you do it with me?
>and I believe the human status is not good enough, because even a single strand of hair, from a long ago dead person can still be human, but we wouldn't care that much about someone trying to kill them now).
Sure we would. If you tried to kill any person that a hair belonged to, that would be killing a person.

@alyx >and I believe the human status is not good enough, because even a single strand of hair, from a long ago dead person can still be human, but we wouldn’t care that much about someone trying to kill them now

You are now conflating something being “human” with it being “a human.” My clipped finger nails are not human beings, they just come from one. A human zygote/embryo/fetus is a human being. I thought you had this superior understanding of the English language. What happened? Did your DMT wear off?

@Eris @critical

@alyx @Eris @critical

I’m not sure you’re a person.
To be a person you need to develop it. It’s not an age question either.

Fetuses are, however, human beings and left with a raising family will develop into a person, which is a stark difference from disembodies zygote.

@alyx @Eris @critical I am a person, but everyone else are just humans. you see Murdering a person is wrong but for a person to murder humans it is necessary sadly. my apologies everyone. I am just a man of destiny above you petty beings. no hard feelings. its just for the greater good of the human race

@alyx >Both of you basically called me a murderer, and I’m the aggressive one.

So you’ve had an abortion?

@Eris @critical

@NEETzsche @critical @Eris
Is fapping and cumming in a tissue the same as an abortion? Checking your definitions on everything now... who knows what the hell people will come up with next.

@alyx @NEETzsche @critical
>Is fapping and cumming in a tissue the same as an abortion?
No, of course not.

@alyx @NEETzsche @critical @Eris this is an extremely poor understanding of fertilization.

@alyx @NEETzsche @critical

You post a lot of excuses not to argue. Why not just argue instead?

@NEETzsche @alyx @Eris @critical ok well I came back. If this whole argument was a rationalisation of something you feel guilty about then I apologise for being cavalier. I wouldn't normally harp on someone's mistakes to make them feel bad. None of that changes my position on the issue though, even if I would maybe not have pursued it with the knowledge it was so personal.

@Greannach @NEETzsche @alyx @critical

>If this whole argument was a rationalisation of something you feel guilty about then I apologise for being cavalier.
Why? That makes it even worse.