I have never heard a single coherent argument for abortion not being murder.

@Eris
Is a fetus a person? And at what stage of pregnancy does a fetus receive personhood status?

@alyx Yes. At the beginning.

@Eris
Why is it a person? What makes someone a person?

@alyx a person is a discrete human being

@Eris
In that case we have a fundamental different understanding of what constitutes personhood. As such, this discussion cannot proceed any further. Also, you'll have some explaining to do when humanity discovers intelligent extraterrestrials, of our level or higher.

@alyx
>In that case we have a fundamental different understanding of what constitutes personhood.
In that case you are insane and all your arguments are incoherent. Thank you for proving my point.

@Eris
I didn't even make an argument. I only asked some question to gauge your level of intelligence and open mindedness to see if it's even worth making an argument.

@alyx My mind is not open to arguments based on a misunderstanding of what a human is.

@Eris
I asked about personhood, not humanity.

@alyx Same thing.

@Eris
Nope. You can call a strand of hair human, but you can't call it a person.

@alyx There is no object that is identifiable as "human" that is not a part of some person.

@Eris
Congrats, you just agreed with me that "person" is not the same as "human". As you just discovered yourself, "human" is a subclass of "person".

@alyx No, I disagree with you.

@Eris
Saying "human object is part of person" excludes the other way around being possible. Which makes it impossible for person = human.

@alyx
>Saying "human object is part of person" excludes the other way around being possible.
No it doesn't. My hair is a human. It is a person. That person is me.

@Eris
You literally started with "person is a DISCRETE human being" and ended up with "hair is person" JUST so you don't admit you could be wrong about something.

@alyx I'm not wrong and gaslighting won't convince me I am.

@Eris
You gaslight yourself in changing your own definition of "person".

@alyx How has my definition changed?
You are pre-emptively saying "your argument is ridiculous" without saying how and assuming i will just agree. Very silly way to behave.

@Eris
You've started our discussion by stating that distinct human beings is what constitutes a person.
Now you're stating that body parts of a human (as opposed to a full distinct human being) is what constitutes a person.
You're contradicting yourself.
Not to mention that the first thing people will think about when hearing "person" is a distinct individual functioning mind. It's why we don't really call a skeleton or a putrefying body a person anymore. And last I checked, your foot doesn't have a mind of it's own.

@alyx

Is a slice of cake cake?

@Eris
A slice of cake is a slice of cake. It is not a distinct individual cake. A slice of cake does not share all properties of the full cake. Yes, it does share some properties, but not all of them.

@alyx

>A slice of cake is a slice of cake. It is not a distinct individual cake.
I didn't ask if it was a distinct individual cake. I asked if it is cake.
If it is cake (it is) then it is necessarily part of some distinct individual cake.

@Eris @alyx assume the slice of cake has a cherry. If you take that cherry, is thr cherry itself a cake?

@critical @Eris
I would advise against trying to argue with him. He's beyond hope. I stopped giving it a serious go a good couple of posts ago.

@alyx @critical Go back to giving it a serious go and see how it goes.

@Eris @critical
With you? I'd rather have a discussion with your foot at this point.

@alyx @critical Why are you still here then

@alyx @critical Also, why are you suddenly so aggressive?

@Eris @critical
Both of you basically called me a murderer, and I'm the aggressive one.

@alyx >Both of you basically called me a murderer, and I’m the aggressive one.

So you’ve had an abortion?

@Eris @critical

@NEETzsche @critical @Eris
Is fapping and cumming in a tissue the same as an abortion? Checking your definitions on everything now... who knows what the hell people will come up with next.

@alyx @NEETzsche @critical
>Is fapping and cumming in a tissue the same as an abortion?
No, of course not.

@alyx @NEETzsche @critical

A sperm cell is human, but which human is it? If you kill the sperm cell, does that human die?
A fetus is human, but which human is it? If you kill the fetus, does that human die?

@Eris @critical @NEETzsche
Or in other words, "human" on itself answers nothing. Again, we need a different word to easily discuss these things.