@hideki @Xalef @colahpse Right. And I think the greater issue at hand is that a whopping majority of time, advertising as being pro-freedom of speech is just only that, nothing more than an empty promise. There are two ways we could have more accountability regarding this:
1. The ToS, Community Guidelines, etc. are open-sourced so that people can see when things changed. For example, here: https://code.sandiamesa.com/traboone/social-ui/src/branch/master/static/instance/about

And if there's a change that may be larger, that could be open for a while as a pull request so that people can comment.
2. We could build in ways to show a public moderation log or current MRF policies that may affect federation, particularly I think for Pleroma and Soapbox FE.

@p @hideki @Xalef @colahpse I'm glad that you and I haven't gotten to that point yet with our instances.

@seanking @p @Xalef @colahpse @hideki I still don't understand why "don't post hyper realistic depictions of children being raped" is controversial

@graf @seanking @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p we can't normalize this shit.

@JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p @seanking well I mean if I'm reading this right, the only rule that changed was that one which means that's what these people are talking about. direct your concern with these people wanting an instance to allow it under the guise of "muh free speech"

@graf @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p @seanking I read the rules and have literally zero concerns. I don't want to see loli shit. If you want it I'm sure you can find it on other instances.

@JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p @seanking the rule change has _nothing_ to do with loli except 3dcg

full stop.

@graf @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p @seanking then I can't fathom what anyone is crying about

@JSDorn @graf @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p I don't know. It could be just a lack of clarification. Graf, personally, I wish you mentioned it didn't mean lolicon was prohibited on your instance earlier because that could've changed the whole conversation. Just my thoughts.

@seanking @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p loli is not mentioned anywhere in the rules, so I feel you also didnt read them and are part of this group who would much rather badmouth us for going back on something we never claimed to be

@graf @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p Graf, I did read the rules. Please for the love of God, stop trying to alienate folks who are trying to help you. I want you to succeed and I am giving you honest advice as an administrator of an instance myself.

@seanking @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p ? I'm not alienating anyone lol

I'm not the one responsible for the rules. I stepped away from all forms of moderation. I'm just giving you my opinion from reading this and knowing you

@graf @seanking @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p be carefull,, you don't want to see sean when he doesn't get his thank u's......,

@bbb @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p @seanking

@graf @bbb @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p @seanking these just get more and more realistically animated as time goes on

@graf @seanking @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p no need to justify yourself to paedos. they should all be euthanized, not argued with.

@seanking @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki @p it isn't mentioned because we didn't want to encourage or prohibit loli posting. This is pretty much our attempt at not getting into the "what is a loli" debate

@lewdthewides @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki @p So here's two pieces of advice:

1. In the section of your rules headed by "What won't get you banned:", just add "Lolicon that is marked NSFW (though, we don't encourage it)".
2. Open-source your rules like I have so that people can at least see when changes are being made and if there's major changes coming, they can give feedback in a pull request.

@seanking @lewdthewides @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @p adding it to the rules is inviting people to post it, bad advice imo

@graf @seanking @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @lewdthewides @p he wants the rules to validate his feelings

@JSDorn @graf @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @lewdthewides @p Nope. I just want to help Poast succeed. Me giving advice is just me trying to do that. Get your head out of your ass and stop trying to be a side-cheerleader while the adults talk.

@seanking @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki @lewdthewides @p I just hate your soi-boi face

@JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki @lewdthewides @p And calling me a soyboy isn't gonna help. Get out of the fucking way and let me and Graf talk like adults.

@seanking @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki @lewdthewides @p just exercising my free speech bro.

@JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki @lewdthewides @p Cool. And I'm exercising my right to free speech to tell you to shut the fuck up. Perhaps, I'll expand that by muting you so that I can laugh as you scream into a void.

@seanking @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki @lewdthewides @p damn you upset, maybe you should hit that bong for a bit.

@seanking @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki @lewdthewides @p I think the problem lies in having these giant instances with thousands of users. Each instance should have a few dozen people, maybe up to around 200, which is the size of a platoon in the military. This is a manageable community. But these megainstances that function like proper Twitter clones will always explode on themselves due to the free speech "where to draw the line" question.

Instead of relying on the fact that the fediverse itself is a free speech platform, people are trying to create free speech instances, which is unreasonable. Make an instance that applies to you and your clique of Internet users, with rules that make sense to them if nobody else.

That's the solution to this question of how far is too far.

@graf @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @lewdthewides @p At least, please consider the open-source part.

@graf @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @lewdthewides @p Then why didn't you just be crystal clear and prohibit it in the first place? At least, that's more respectable than trying to pretend to be something you're not.

@seanking @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @lewdthewides @p nobody is trying to prohibit it. adding it to the rules during a time when minds is holocausting loli posters and they are looking for a new home is not something we want to advertise to the general public. there’s a major difference between being okay with something on the timeline and making that your entire local timeline

@graf @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @lewdthewides @p Say what you will about the loli part. For the love of God, I do ask that you consider the open-source part though.

@seanking @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @lewdthewides @p we dont have to consider it. when i figure out the best way to deploy updates we plan on hosting the entirety on a selfhosted git instance

@seanking @graf @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @lewdthewides @p shut up, pedophile

@seanking @lewdthewides @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki @p That's a idiotic idea given the kind of population Poast lures in. Lolicon is
1.) Strongly associated with freedom. That 1000 year old Phoenix is a liberty symbol. Whether people on Poast like it or not.

2.) It tells trolls inside the target audience what they have to do to piss a lot of people off.

There are only 2 remedies I know to be working. Either ban porn completely like the Instance I am on does or spam in such gargantuan amounts like admin of another that people don't want to post it anymore.

@lewdthewides @seanking @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki

> This is pretty much our attempt at not getting into the "what is a loli" debate

Good luck, I've never been able to avoid it.

@p @lewdthewides @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki @seanking Lmao every single time I open husky, one of the first words I read is, unevitably, "loli"

@graf @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @seanking

> the rule change has _nothing_ to do with loli except 3dcg

Oh, that's legit illegal in the US.

@p @graf @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki Yep. That is. I see no problem with prohibiting that. What I do see being the problem is the lack of clarification and the way it's worded:

> Extreme (obscene) material that a vast majority would find distasteful is prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to: realistic CG depictions of children, toddlercon, bestiality, and scat.

Yes, porn with realistic CG depictions of children is illegal 100%. However, what's defined as "obscene" is subjective. Though said to not be protected by the 1st Amendment, it never really has had a clear definition. Moreover, "extreme" can also be a subjective word. You could say something like, "Pornography that is clearly illegal in the US such as child porn, CG depictions, toddlercon, bestiality, and scat is prohibited." I'm not sure what the legality status of bestiality, scat, and toddlercon is in the U.S., so just consider that a rough draft.

@seanking @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki We just use the catch-all "Nothing illegal" and then I get to get yelled at over the no lewding the lolis policy and I just paste the blog post at them until they go away while drinking heavily to stave off the flashbacks I keep having of the interminable loli debates.

@p @seanking @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @graf @hideki I give you shit on the regular because of the domain name but if people dont like one instance they can just join neckbeard or baraag or any of the other instances which allows the content.

That is the whole point of federation and as long as admins arent defederating people have no real reason to sperg out.

@rude @p @JSDorn @Xalef @colahpse @hideki @seanking in the rule announcement post I made, I linked both the fediblock list and the-federation lists if anyone was interested in moving after reading the updated rules but so far it doesnt seem like we lost anyone, still growing. im just glad it was mostly well received by our existing users

@graf >so far it doesnt seem like we lost anyone
hum, well, have you added the ability to migrate to other instances yet?

@smugumin yeah let me do that while i was asleep for a total of 4 hours

@graf @seanking @Xalef @colahpse @hideki People like jacking off, it's the human condition.