@xeno
I tend to agree, there are legitimate reasons for blocking an instance, but if you for example check out dzuk's blocklist you will find that most posts cited as reason for the listing are just opinions, jokes or run of the mill insults. Trying not to get blocked is worse than walking on egg shells. It's this culture in general that's pissing me off.
@feld @dirb @sjw @djsumdog @p @DetectiveHyde @awg

@matrix @awg @DetectiveHyde @p @djsumdog @sjw @dirb @feld dzuk's current list is... honestly not that bad for the most part? except for the political/opinionated ones and, well, the general principle. if it was all about spam, or, say, realms that dont enforce nsfw tagging (something i think would absolutely fair to defederate from, if someone cares about the rule on their own realm) id be down with it.

"It's this culture in general that's pissing me off." let me quote my post from earlier tonight: "arguing over censorship semantics is a spook. focus on the goddamn groupthink and dogpiling". it's 100% a problem with the culture and i'm getting tired by the censorship buzzword. crying it out every ten seconds won't get us anywhere

@matrix @xeno @feld @dirb @djsumdog @p @DetectiveHyde @awg Got a link?

@xeno @feld @dirb @sjw @p @DetectiveHyde @awg @matrix I agree with being open about it; specifically if you have friends on an instance who suddenly can no longer see anything you say, and there's no warning to them from the admin about it. (I'm still sour about @cambrian_era, who didn't even fucking talk to me before banning me from her entire instance. She could have just muted me for herself and let others decide for themselves as well).

@djsumdog @cambrian_era @matrix @awg @DetectiveHyde @p @sjw @dirb @feld that's such a perfect vertical slice. this, dzuk and the jorts horse lall situation is basically all i wish we could get rid of

@xeno @feld @dirb@social.beepboop.ga @sjw @djsumdog@hitchhiker.social @p@freespeechextremist.com @DetectiveHyde @awg@pl.smuglo.li @matrix@gameliberty.club Hey pals, what's going on around here

@cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @sjw @dirb @feld @djsumdog @p @awg @matrix nothing much, just whining about block happy admins, hbu

@xeno @feld @dirb@social.beepboop.ga @sjw @djsumdog@hitchhiker.social @p@freespeechextremist.com @DetectiveHyde @awg@pl.smuglo.li @matrix@gameliberty.club Yeah i figured it was some people being angry about managing to get blocked.

@cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @sjw @feld @dirb @djsumdog @p @awg @matrix i'm not angry. i'm just disappointed.

@xeno @feld @dirb@social.beepboop.ga @sjw @djsumdog@hitchhiker.social @p@freespeechextremist.com @DetectiveHyde @awg@pl.smuglo.li @matrix@gameliberty.club lol seriously?

@xeno @feld @sjw @DetectiveHyde It's weird that you think it's, like, a personal thing since I don't think I have anyone on my personal blocks and don't think I've even muted anyone. But, like, I guess I don't see the benefit in letting people be dicks to my users.

@cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @sjw @feld have you considered telling your users about the mute and block buttons instead of killing off any connections they might have had with people on those instances?

@xeno @feld @sjw @DetectiveHyde https://radical.town/@cambrian_era/100636784874269047 Uh yeah, actually.

@xeno @feld @sjw @DetectiveHyde But, like, at the end of the day I gotta make the call about which is better in the end. Telling people, "Wow, just uh, mute them and block them because someone else might be friends with people on shitpostloli.club" or whatever or letting those people use other instances.

@cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @sjw @feld as months pass i get closer and closer to those same conclusions, but i've seen a lot on the fediverse and still don't think any of the people we've cut out of this conversation (because i got fed up with the manual tag pasting) deserved it.

i totally understand why you would defederate from realms that allow loli or something like FSE (although i have to point out that even on FSE there are people i adore!! even if they keep saying i deserve to be stoned for being a faggot, they're just so interesting) there has to be a better way, one that doesn't hurt federation.

@xeno @feld @DetectiveHyde @cambrian_era Are you saying you don't deserve to be stoned to death for being a faggot?

@cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @sjw @feld @dirb @djsumdog @p @awg @matrix well to be perfectly honest, not really, at least not with you personally, since i don't really know who you blocked aside from @djsumdog or why. but anxiety makes me quite irritable and having to manually copy and paste all the tags of the people you blocked is kind of getting on my nerves already.

@xeno @cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @sjw @feld @dirb @djsumdog @awg @matrix They're into blocking based on domains over at radical town, because they don't know what "radical" means (See image) and everyone is nazis: https://radical.town/@pisschrist/100997934095662072
doc_gets_rad.png

@p @xeno @cambrian_era @sjw @feld @dirb @djsumdog @awg @matrix All this conversation did for me was make me wish there was a Christian instance that I could bully.

@DetectiveHyde @xeno @cambrian_era @sjw @feld @dirb @djsumdog @awg @matrix There will be, actually!

But also !

@p @DetectiveHyde @xeno @cambrian_era @sjw @feld @dirb @djsumdog @awg @matrix I just realized that the antibully ranger is the original dabber.

@p @xeno @cambrian_era @sjw @feld @dirb @djsumdog @awg @matrix BULLY
Varg-Vikernes-July-2013.jpg

@DetectiveHyde @p @cambrian_era @sjw @feld @dirb @djsumdog @awg @matrix what about smuglo?

@xeno @p @cambrian_era @sjw @feld @dirb @djsumdog @awg @matrix Smugloli is an instance for Chads and actual smug lolis, it's sacred

@DetectiveHyde @feld @p @matrix @djsumdog @awg @cambrian_era @dirb @xeno

@p @xeno @cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @feld @dirb @djsumdog @awg @matrix TIL free speech = Nazism

@sjw @matrix @awg @djsumdog @dirb @feld @DetectiveHyde @cambrian_era @xeno "You wouldn't care about freedom of speech unless you were a Nazi" is the new "You wouldn't care about privacy unless you were a terrorist".

@p @sjw @matrix @awg @djsumdog @dirb @feld @DetectiveHyde @cambrian_era @xeno You wouldnt download a pizza

@nether @p @sjw @matrix @awg @djsumdog @dirb @feld @DetectiveHyde @cambrian_era @xeno i would absolutely download a pizza

@cookie @awg @matrix @djsumdog @cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @feld @p @nether @dirb @xeno Yeah but you wouldn't download a car

@p @sjw @matrix @awg @djsumdog @dirb@social.beepboop.ga @feld @DetectiveHyde @cambrian_era @xeno
Would agree if it was about free speech - That people should not be arbitrarily persecuted by the state for shit they say or write. That shit must be well defined and minimal.

But in this case only the wording is bad. If You say:

"People who absurdly scream about freedom of speech when someone call a nazi a nazi are probably a nazi."

or

"People who scream about freedom speech when someone don't federate shit they don't like are probably a nazi or severely confused."

Then it would be just quite correct.

@LaH @p @matrix @awg @djsumdog @feld @DetectiveHyde @cambrian_era @xeno Why'd you block @dirb?

@sjw @dirb @xeno @cambrian_era @feld @djsumdog @awg @matrix @p @LaH sorry who blocked dirb?

@DetectiveHyde @feld @p @matrix @djsumdog @LaH @awg @cambrian_era @dirb @xeno Who's post did I reply to?

@sjw @xeno @dirb @cambrian_era @awg @LaH @djsumdog @matrix @p @feld Beats me, I was on the virgin Tusky

@DetectiveHyde @feld @p @matrix @djsumdog @LaH @awg @cambrian_era @dirb @xeno Same here but j can still see which posts reply to witch. Anyway, I was replying to @LaH

@sjw @p @matrix @awg @djsumdog @feld @DetectiveHyde @cambrian_era @xeno @dirb@social.beepboop.ga
Judging from the first message in the thread one instance have blocked gameliberty dot club.

I don't give a shit. Any users on ether instance not happy can move. Anyone can say what they want, anyone who want can listen.

@sjw @xeno @cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @feld @djsumdog @awg @matrix @p @LaH wew, I didn't know mastodon.host blocked me, it's that or they have a dns that can't resolve the .ga top domain

@LaH @xeno @cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @feld @djsumdog @awg @matrix @sjw

With all due respect, what you have written is a crock.

> That people should not be arbitrarily persecuted by the state for shit they say

State censorship is one form of censorship. It is legally prohibited in some countries, like the US. Prohibiting state censorship is excellent.

"Because it isn't mentioned in the First Amendment, censorship is legal as long as the state doesn't do it" is actually completely false. There's an entire body of law that contradicts this meme. I can explain if you like, but generally you are liable for what you control, a platform with editorial control is (legally and ethically) distinct from one without, and your ISP is a private company but cannot (legally) abridge your speech, and you can protest in Walmart's parking lot.

> People who absurdly scream about freedom of speech when someone call a nazi a nazi are probably a nazi.

It doesn't matter who made an argument. We figured this out long enough ago that we say "ad hominem" in Latin.

I'm sure you know as well as I do that people will call anyone a Nazi nowadays. Does it just take an accusation?

If that's really your argument, then you have failed to understand the devastating effects of McCarthyism, but McCarthyists tend to turn a blind eye to McCarthyism when their team does it.

> People who scream about freedom speech when someone don't federate shit they don't like are probably a nazi or severely confused.

And I think people who are authoritarian/paternalistic without transparency, or anyone who would support someone like that, have significant overlap with Nazis, no matter how little authority they actually have. I'd say that what you wrote sounds like something a Nazi would write. I don't know you, maybe you were drunk when you wrote it and you woke up thinking the same thing I'm thinking.

@p @LaH @xeno @cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @feld @djsumdog @awg @matrix @sjw hey, i don't know who half the names in this convo are. i'm assuming it's a bunch of communist tranny faggot broken-brain pieces of shit. hey, trannies, here's an idea: nazis are actually the good guys.

@chara @p @LaH @xeno @cambrian_era @feld @djsumdog @awg @matrix @sjw Worthless.

@DetectiveHyde @p @LaH @xeno @cambrian_era @feld @djsumdog @awg @matrix @sjw don't get upset just because you know i'm right and you're wrong

@chara @DetectiveHyde @p @LaH @xeno @cambrian_era @feld @djsumdog @matrix @sjw I'm only disappointed that you're posing as someone else here.

@awg @DetectiveHyde @p @LaH @xeno @cambrian_era @feld @djsumdog @matrix @sjw

@DetectiveHyde @p @LaH @xeno @cambrian_era @feld @djsumdog @awg @matrix @sjw OY VEY! LOOK OUT! IT'S THE PURITY SPIRAL!

@chara @DetectiveHyde @p @LaH @xeno @cambrian_era @feld @djsumdog @awg @matrix windmill of friendship :windmilloffriendship:

@sjw @matrix @awg @djsumdog @feld @cambrian_era @xeno @LaH @p @DetectiveHyde @chara

> windmill of friendship

Keep in mind that it has good reasons, that this (NS related) signs are forbidden in many countries. And no, that is not a thing of free speech.

@chara @p @LaH @xeno @cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @feld @djsumdog @awg @matrix I'm an SJW LGBT feminist :cirnoHeh:

@p @xeno @cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @feld @djsumdog @awg @matrix @sjw

Damn, everything You don't like arn't automatically a violation of Your free speech.

If someone call someone a nazi they are *using* there right to free speech.

If that's any wrong it's in that case defamation, any rule against that is limiting free speech so should be kept at the bare minimum necessary.

'fediverse' is a set of independent moderated instances the federate voluntary. You can choose a instance or set up Your own and say what You want. So long all instances that *want* can federate with You no one is violating Your free speech rights.

Net-neutrality is a different thing but certainly important. Without it some instances might not be able to talk to Yours even if they want to. That at least making Your use of Your free speech harder.

Right to assembly, access to public space... Different thing but sometimes relatable (rules about graffiti and putting up posters for example).

Major threat against free speech right now is copyright. That limitation of free speech has gone totally overboard and EU have sinister plans :-( Also related to the disturbing trend to 'outsource' the execution of the rules to private actors to circumvent all due process standards.

Free speech is important. It is threatened. And goons that scream 'free speech' every time there gentle ego is bruised are annoying.

So are people that respond to the bull with 'free speech is bull'... But that just a frustrated response to the first group that *really* are a problem for anyone defending free speech.

@LaH @sjw @matrix @awg @djsumdog @feld @DetectiveHyde @cambrian_era @xeno

> Damn, everything You don't like arn't automatically a violation of Your free speech.

Not the case I made. I'll shorten it for you: there are forms of censorship besides state censorship, some of that censorship is illegal, nearly all censorship is stupid, calling people "Nazis" hardly means anything now, and admins that carry out ideological censorship are baby fascists.

> If someone call someone a nazi they are *using* there right to free speech.

The point about McCarthyism wasn't that it was or should have been illegal to call people communists. The point was that the witch-hunts, secret blacklists, and inquisitions were destructive. It happened because "communist" became a scarlet letter, people were ready to believe anyone was a secret commie without evidence, and zealots were carrying pitchforks.

I don't have any urge to stop instances that choose not to federate. I do think they're incorrect, petit-Pétains with stupid ideas. I'd like to convince them to empower their users instead of restricting them. For practical reasons, I'm here because of SF-style censorship and soft-censorship (algorithmic curation, shadowbans, etc.), and I think if fedi turns into distributed Twitter/Gab like Eugen wants, it's got a worse chance.

Net Neutrality wasn't what I was talking about when I mentioned the ISPs. Even without NN, they can't ban opinions.

I think the EU's Article 13 is worse than removing NN. Part of the reason I'm running this server in the US is to help people get around laws like that. I'm onboard with most of what you said about copyright, though I think limited copyright is not going to kill speech. US and EU copyright systems have gone way too far.

It's irritating when people are wrong about free speech, sure. I'm more worried about people that don't care about speech.

@LaH @xeno @cambrian_era @DetectiveHyde @feld @djsumdog @awg @matrix @sjw @p Sounds like you're an actual real life Nazi.

@xeno @feld @dirb @sjw @p @DetectiveHyde @awg @cambrian_era @matrix It's kinda funny that she can't see the original message I sent because of her block, but can see the replies from other instances. It's interesting to look at the actual page for a status and see how it compares to your own view of the same status or even other people in the thread. Breaking federation splits the conversations.

@djsumdog @cambrian_era @matrix @DetectiveHyde @p @sjw @dirb @feld @xeno >radical.town
well if you were still there, many of us here probably wouldn't be able to interact with you rn. so I'll still offer token thanks to shitty people who do good things in spite of themselves.

@xeno @feld @dirb @djsumdog @p @DetectiveHyde @awg @matrix You make some good points. I wouldn't really fault a Christan server that wanted to block all instances that hosted porn.