@jasonoliveira @matrix
@djsumdog They're not just words. Verbal abuse has real, *physiological* effects. Your emotions aren't just incorporeal abstractions either: elevated heart rate, clenching of muscles, short breathing... words can cause all of those.

Good for you that you don't find some kinds of verbal abuse hurtful, but guaranteed there are others that you do because you're human like the rest of us, in need of healthy socialisation like the rest of us.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-new-brain/201010/sticks-and-stones-hurtful-words-damage-the-brain

@JordiGH
And yet people can learn to be resilient and ignore verbal abuse. Whatever happened to that old phrase: "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

Words only hurt you if you allow them to. You have to accept them and dwell on them for damage to be done. Don't let someone else's words live rent-free in your head. You're the one in control of your mind, no one else.
@jasonoliveira @matrix @djsumdog

@skypage @jasonoliveira @matrix @djsumdog Please read the article I linked.

@JordiGH @skypage @matrix @djsumdog

You're trying to say that racism is now violent abuse. Your opinion is invalid.

@skypage @JordiGH @jasonoliveira @matrix (Taken from The Coddling of the American Mind, p230

@JordiGH @matrix @djsumdog You're adorable, trying to pretend the definition of violence isn't the definition of violence. This means I'm going to disregard the rest of your text because it's based on an invalid premise. I'm sure you'll understand.

@jasonoliveira @matrix @djsumdog Give it a different name, if you please. If you'd like to nitpick definitions, I used the word "abuse" not "violence".

This isn't froofy SJW snowflake cuck censorship or whatever you'd like to call it nowadays. Verbal abuse has physically measurable effects on people.

@JordiGH @matrix @djsumdog That measurable difference is how much hair the "violence" put on their chest.

@jasonoliveira @matrix @djsumdog No, abusing someone doesn't make them stronger. They may make themselves stronger elsehow. But subjecting them to abuse alone leaves scars, not hair.

@JordiGH @matrix @djsumdog I was (rightfully) picked on my entire time in school until I got strong enough to take it, dish it out, and defend others. If others did not do the same, that means they failed a basic test of the social darwinism that is the United States Education System.

@jasonoliveira @matrix @djsumdog Internalising abuse is a common defense mechanism. It's similar to how victims of scams or other crimes feel stupid and blame themselves, even if they know they shouldn't be. Because by blaming ourselves we try to give back ourselves agency to make sure it won't happen again. The alternative is to believe is there nothing we could have done, so there's nothing we could do to prevent it next time.

@jasonoliveira @matrix @djsumdog

It's similar when internalising abuse. I am stronger now, so I won't let it happen again.

But that doesn't make the abuse right, just as it doesn't mean that victims are to be blamed.

@JordiGH @matrix @djsumdog ...and you finish up with the "I wasn't asking for it".

I think from this point, I'm just going to be resorting to mockery, because you're clearly not arguing from any sembalance of good faith. Have a meme.

@JordiGH @matrix @djsumdog
> You shouldn't wisen-up to fraud, because you're a victim.
Yeah, this is why we're not taking your arguments seriously here. You took a conversation about third-party offense to racism that wasn't directed at them, and turned it into this. Take this up with your therapist.

@jasonoliveira @matrix @djsumdog Racism hurts all of us, even if it's not directed at us.

Oh, turns out I can listen to this Spotify episode without DRM, will do so now.

@JordiGH @matrix @djsumdog And now you're resorting to unfalsifyable statements. Come on, bro.

@JordiGH @jasonoliveira @matrix and the right response should be to teach people how to deal with those words or seek out help or encouragement; NOT to silence and cancel voices they do not agree with.

@djsumdog @jasonoliveira @matrix Not agreeing with someone like we are disagreeing right now and not tolerating verbal abuse as a society are two different things.

We shouldn't tolerate racism, directed at anyone. I'll listen to the podcast in a moment, but racism is a societal problem that has to be dealt with as a society together. None of us should tolerate it towards anyone else.

@JordiGH @djsumdog @matrix Not only will I tolerate racism, but I wil make a space for their views to be heard, laughed at, and discredited.

Racism as a societal problem was solved during the Gen-X'ers. The only racists now are the ones going around calling everyone else racists. If you're doing this, this means I'm calling you a racist too. Stop hating people and live in harmony with everyone, including the ones that hate people with different skin colors than their own.

@jasonoliveira @djsumdog @matrix Giving them a space and trying to debate them and mock them doesn't work. We tried that in WW2. Nazism just grew until it became the holocaust.

Odious ideas only spread if given a platform. They cannot be argued away.

@jasonoliveira @djsumdog @matrix If things could be argued away, one of us would have already convinced the other.

:-)))))))

@JordiGH @djsumdog @matrix who is trying to convince anyone? I'm just here to laugh at you for turning a conversation about third parties reacting to racism that wasn't directed at them, into this bullshit.

@JordiGH @djsumdog @matrix
> Literally mentions the Nazi boogeyman.
Yeah, I'm not even talking to a person. I'm talking to a Facebook feed. You've been sold a con and won't smarten up, because you coddle victimhood as you've previously discussed.

I hope you have a good day. Please wake up.

@jasonoliveira @djsumdog @matrix I've had a very nice and sheltered life. Nothing dreadful has ever happened to me. But lots of dreadful things are happening to people I care about, so I do what I can to help.

It's not a boogyeman. People are literally brandishing swastikas today. It's no longer a simple law of the internet.

Racism and nazism are alive today.

@JordiGH @djsumdog @matrix You understand that the reason these (mostly brown and black people) are brandishing swastikas is because it's an easy symbol to trigger the easily-sheltered and programmed such as yourself, right?

You know that if you didn't react to them so strongly, they'd switch to something else that makes you REEEEE, right?

@jasonoliveira You have your REEEEE snowflake cuck SJW libtard programming too, y'know. Every in-group has its lingo.

And, no, the swastikas I'm seeing are not on brown people. Want me to look for recent examples?

@JordiGH I'm sure you'll find one of the 1,000 active National Socialists in the country (it's literally that few. go look it up) to support your confirmation bias.

The problem is that you're lumping everyone that thinks racism is funny into the Nazi category. You're lumping anyone that doesn't really like their community's values changed through importation of immigrants or those in witness protection into the Nazi category. You're lumping anyone outside the extreme left's into "Nazi".

@jasonoliveira The idea that being against racism is "extreme left" is a rather recent one. It's a common talking point of modern Trumpism. Anything slightly left of Trumpism is radical left.

Racism is wrong and intolerable, not funny. This wasn't a radical opinion and it shouldn't be one.

@JordiGH
> Racism can't be funny
Boy are you wrong.

> It's the Trumpists that are intolerant.
Right, because Brandon Straka isn't real, and #WalkAway isn't turning into a massive thing. Sure kid. Maybe take a peek out of your echo chamber sometime?

@jasonoliveira Well, I thought you were outside my echo chamber. I hope you're relishing this opportunity to educate me.

Anyway, let me read a bit more. If you'd like to keep talking at any point later, let me know.

@JordiGH If you need calibration, I've never voted republican in the 23 years I've been eligible to vote.

@jasonoliveira @JordiGH ok boomer

@JordiGH @jasonoliveira @matrix So .. you're not a victim at all, you're assuming the victimhood of others and think you're standing up for them, when maybe they don't need your help?

> Racism and nazism are alive today

So what?! Who gives a shit. They're no where near as big a threat as you think they are. Law enforcement is probably already monitoring them waiting for them to commit an actual crime.

and keep in mind, the way you view racism/nazism today is the same way people viewed civil rights decades ago.

"Those black people who want the same jobs we have; well that's alive and well today."

You can't tell if you're on the winning or losing side of history until way later. So just let everyone speak and be heard so you can choose for yourself which values you want to hold.

@djsumdog I already know what values I want to hold: racism isn't one of them. This isn't a difficult choice that requires careful debate.

@JordiGH good. I'm not a racist either. (I'm literally brown; permanent tan, the whole bit). I made that choice for myself.

I'm not going to make that choice for other people, or demand certain ideas not be heard, just because I may not agree with them.

That's another value I hold, and it's a choice that DOES require careful debate .. but in that debate, I fall squarely on the side of free speech.

Also ... you.. should really carefully debate with yourself more. It should be a difficult choice where you place your values. Why are you not a racist? What is racism? Are you sure you're not actually being racist via your anti-racism? .. It's a difficult and nuanced topic. Most of our core values should have involved a lot of careful though. If they didn't ... maybe you're just repeating what your told is right without thinking about it.

@JordiGH Also I just want to say before this gets too off the rails, I do enjoy this thread .. I'm not sure why you tagged me in it, but it's interesting to see your perspective and debate about this. Even though I don't agree with your views, I can see that you're debating in good faith and I should be exposed to your views as well to better understand my fellow human beings.

@djsumdog Oh, because you boosted it.

@JordiGH ah, gotcha.

@JordiGH
I'm sorry as my post is completely out of context, but this does not apply in what I was referencing.
I'm referencing an adult man getting offended on behalf of others at jokes on the internet. Not a child being told to suck up bullying.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/04v7RSyA32dAbSZ9OwwUHU?si=SMrlaYDJToeKA0NSm9S6aA
@jasonoliveira @djsumdog

@matrix @jasonoliveira @djsumdog Oh, Spotify requires DRM. I don't want to support anything with DRM. I might listen to the podcast if I could find an alternate venue.

@JordiGH
Understable, I think it's only on Spotify sadly
@jasonoliveira @djsumdog

@JordiGH @jasonoliveira @matrix oh I forget, whatever doesn't kill us makes us weaker.

Do you really think you can just protect everyone from everything? Does it do us good to even try? Is it better for a person to be able to stand up against words and walk away, or for mommie and daddy and big government to come in and "protect" you. I do not need your protection.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you have the freedom to listen. You can walk away. But today, it's not enough to walk away. It's about making loud noises outside of lecture halls and screaming and bitching like a whiny little child no the other person cannot be heard.

You realize how insulting it is to say, "You don't need to hear this because 'I'm protecting you from x'" How utterly condescending. No human needs your protection. You're teaching people the wrong thing.

@djsumdog @jasonoliveira @matrix Actually, yes, whatever doesn't kill does make you weaker. We're not lizards. We don't grow back limbs.

@JordiGH @djsumdog @matrix Spoken like someone that's never taxed their liver before. You can destroy 60% of it and it'll still grow back.

@jasonoliveira @djsumdog @matrix Spoken like coming from a family of alcoholics. I've seen lives destroyed.

@JordiGH @djsumdog @matrix Look at you throwing around insults because nobody's taking you seriously anymore.

You can damage your liver in other ways, chum. I lost 60% of mine due to being a fat fuck, losing a gallbladder, then having the liver overcompensate. One cepticemia later, and poof, 60% gone.

@jasonoliveira @djsumdog @matrix I mean, my family is a family of alcoholics. Wasn't referring to you, sorry. I was correcting you what I was speaking as.

@JordiGH @jasonoliveira @matrix @djsumdog > elevated heart rate, clenching of muscles, short breathing

So basically, when I hear someone's radio playing NPR.

@Moon NPR is officially violence now.

@jasonoliveira @Moon So is self-defense according to birdsite.

@Moon @jasonoliveira @djsumdog @matrix Sure, that's your out-group, your enemies. That's what gets to you. Everyone has one of those.

@JordiGH @jasonoliveira @djsumdog @matrix Very subjective if you ask me.