@ArdanianRight @matrix Do they know about the bread lines in Soviet Russia?

@rasterman @ArdanianRight Not real communism ™️

@matrix @ArdanianRight Do they also never stop to wonder why real communism hasn't been tried, despite trying to try it?

i.e.: why it's so against natural order, that even with a dictatorship, it was impossible to implement.

Is that why leftists *have* to be social constructionists, to avoid nature altogether?

@rasterman @matrix Western imperialist sanctions.

@ArdanianRight @matrix Every time I see that argument, I wonder how bad those systems are, that can't sustain themselves against sanctions from a part of the world. It's not as if Russia wasn't a massive place, or that it could have trade relations with other non-Western imperialist powers.

It's what Venezuela's Maduro says when he blames "the Empire" (the USA) for Venezuela's deplorable state, ignoring the fact they have China, Russia and Iran, among many others on their side. Well, they are not running out of commercial partners, but at some point they should also do their part. Could it be that socialism doesn't work that well?

@rasterman @matrix America was plenty prosperous throughout the 19th Century when they had heavy tariffs and were largely self-sufficient.

@ArdanianRight @matrix What the hey!? Wasn't 19th century USA the one closest resembling a libertarian paradise, with free market and low regulations? How could that system survive under such hostile conditions from the powers that be?

That doesn't work with Russia. Sure, it's literally the largest country on Earth; but--

@rasterman @matrix Internally it didn't have too many restrictions, but they did lean heavily on the tariff as a source of revenue.

@ArdanianRight @matrix Yes, I've heard a bit. Though I know a little better how Japan, after WWII, put tariffs on car imports, which initially meant more expensive cars for the average Jap or buy a crappy Japanese car; but helped them develop their own automotive industry which lead to today's recognisable brands with quality vehicles.

Or the UK using the textile industry and protectionist policies to become an industrial power, while preaching anti-protectionism for everyone else. Clever Anglos.

I guess neo-liberalism is good if you want to be a low-tier country depending on the ones actually producing the goods. Something similar to teaching a man to fish instead of giving him the fish.

@rasterman @matrix There's advantages to selective openness, but in a lot of cases protectionism does have uses.