@nerdman @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

This example you give is interesting. You're not a POS, but it'd be interesting to know some specifics; was the baby unable to breathe because it was yanked out early? Or some sort of birth defect? Did the mother do anything to harm the child? These are factors to consider.

What if the woman refuses to feed the baby? Is that the baby's fault, too?

Even libertarianism should have some limits. Parents shouldn't be allowed to behead their children in the woods.

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

I'm specifically talking about the baby getting aborted. If the woman wants to get the baby removed from her body before the baby can survive on it's own it is not murder, it's just the baby not being fully developed.

The thought of doing it is disgusting to me and I've talked to it about a feminist that said she would never under any circumstances do it, just she wants women to have that choice. This sounds logical to me.

As to feeding the baby, women (and only women as far as I can tell) can drop off babies anonimousy at fire stations, at least in USA and Canada. I hear they have special little cribs for that shit. So, if a woman wants to abandon a babe she can already do that, no harm no fowl. Given she has that option, or the option to give it up for adoption normally, by not feeding it she's murdering it, IMO.

As to libertarianism, I agree. Everything has it's limits. That is why you have libertarians or minarchists as a separate category from anarcho capitalists.

@nerdman
Firstly, that's not really what abortion is about. It's mostly about crushing skulls, sucking brains, and plucking limbs.

Secondly, it's not the existence of other options that makes starving a baby morally wrong.
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

I know the practical way abortions are carried out are as you describe, but the principle is they do it that way because it's easier than taking it out and just watching it die.

And I'm not saying it's not morally wrong, it's just that there's two conflicting moral wrongs. One of the baby being denied it's right to life, one of the mother being forced to be the incubator for the baby. Given the conflict and given that only one person can make a choice I side with letting the person make that choice. It's an abhorrent choice for me but I think that taking it away is wrong.

My calculus on dilemma this is super iffy and I might swing the other way at some point but it stands as stated.

@nerdman
Interesting. You think a woman having to carry a term is immoral? It's more of a great inconvenience, certainly not worth killing over.
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

This is not what women tell me and since I can't experience that I'll trust them on this.

There's also the practical benefit. One aborted baby, one baby we won't have to pay taxes potentially to feed, educate and eventually incarcerate. Fiscally it makes sense, specially for poor mothers. And morally kind of too. If you're a poor mother you're going to have a poor kid, and the life of a poor person is hard.

@nerdman
I don't think money is more important than human lives tho. And I disagree that it's better to be dead than have a hard life or be poor.
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

@realcaseyrollins @nerdman @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7 Individual liberty is more important than human lives, especially if the revocation of liberty costs you your own in exchange for a child's.

@anornymorse
does banning baby killing really restrict freedom? Freedoms should only be allowed insofar as they don't infringe on others' rights and/or harm them.
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7 Sometimes, having the baby restricts liberty. Like having one in Canada. You're fucked if you do.

@anornymorse
But wouldn't killing the baby infringe on its rights?
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7

@realcaseyrollins @anornymorse @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

And forcing the woman to keep it infringes on hers'.

@nerdman
a women not feeling like carrying a baby is not more important than that baby being allowed to live
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7 @anornymorse

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7 @anornymorse

Here, our opinions differ.

@realcaseyrollins @nerdman @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

that's, like, your opinion, man.

@anornymorse
If it comes to some woman feeling uncomfortable or some baby's existence...imma have to say no to murder. Sorry. 💁🏾‍♂️
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7

@realcaseyrollins @anornymorse @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

It's murder but it should be allowed.

@nerdman
Do you hear yourself rn? Smh
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7 @anornymorse

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7 You'll change your mind if you bust one too many irresponsible nuts.

@anornymorse
"Oops! Guess it's baby killing time!" - Me From The Future
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7 Now I'm gonna legit pray it happens to you. You should know what it's like to have to kill a baby because the mom is planning on ruining the next 20 years of your life.

@realcaseyrollins @anornymorse @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7 but if abortions were banned, we'd run out of Carl Buddig lunchmeat in a matter of weeks :(
Original-Pastrami-2oz.png

@Grandtheftautism
See? It would even boost the economy! 🙂
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7 @anornymorse

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7 Perhaps, but who is going to be able to enforce that baby's claim to life without infringing upon the rights on their parent, and therefore claiming the parent as property of the state, in order to do so?

@anornymorse
is a woman not feeling like carrying a baby more important than that baby's life?
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7

@realcaseyrollins @anornymorse @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

Equally as important. But since the woman can talk and the baby can't we go with the woman.

@nerdman
Do only those who can speak have the right to live then?
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7 @anornymorse

@realcaseyrollins @nerdman @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7 It's way bigger than that: Those that can't assert or enforce their own rights are at the mercy (or lack thereof) of those that can.

@anornymorse
Ah! So the weak likewise don't deserve to live.
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7

@realcaseyrollins @anornymorse @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

They deserve to live but they're not preferred to do so. Who gets better healthcare? Those who can pay for the best doctors or those who can't?

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7 It goes way deeper than that: The weak are unable to enforce their claim to life, because nobody does it for them. It isn't about deserving. It's about capability.

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7 @anornymorse

Priority is given to the one that can give most value with the most certainty. I'd save Isaac Newton from death sooner than I'd save a bum, all other things being equal.

@nerdman
I'd save both.
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7 @anornymorse

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7 @anornymorse

Me too if possible. I'd start with the guy that gave us calculus, mechanics, the law of thermodynamics, first.

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7 Yes, because she owns herself, and the placenta's contents. And in order to change that, you have to make her a ward of the state.

@anornymorse
A parent owns her born children too; so she should be able to kill them as well?
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7 This just shows you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a Birth Certificate's purpose is: it creates a trust (shared title to property) between the state and the baby's guardian, thus ensuring that the state can now enforce the individuals rights.

@anornymorse
Pieces of paper don't make or break someone's fundamental human rigbts. Otherwise, citizens could legally commit crimes against illegal immigrants with impunity.
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @nerdman @a7 The state would disagree with your assertion.

You also forget that all those illegal immigrants were papered in another country.

@realcaseyrollins @anornymorse @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

Citizens can murder citizens. In self defense or in the defense of others, because the rights of law abiding citizens are more important than those of criminals.

Also about illegals, their right to liberty is not respected as when found they can be jailed and deported, as opposed to a legal immigrant or native.

@realcaseyrollins @anornymorse @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

The problem in this case is that the baby's right to live conflicts with the woman's right to not have it.

@nerdman
The woman gave that right up when she started developing it.
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7 @anornymorse

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

I hate poverty and want it gone. The most effective way of having this happen at this point is lowering the birth rate of poor people. This is my reasoning for this part of my calculation.

As to money being more important than human lves, well, I'll believe that when first world taxes are used overwhelmingly to help third world people.

Note: I don't want this to happen, every country hould deal on it's own, it's just that the "life > money" is EVIDENTLY false, as gross as it is to realize this.

@nerdman
There's probably a better was to get rid of poverty than killing all the poor people.

It's like North Korea shooting the #COVID patients; does it fix the problem? Yes, but also no.
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

I'm not saying to kill them. Just discourage their reproduction.

@nerdman
There are better ways to limit reproduction than killing the babies.
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

@realcaseyrollins @dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7

I agree. I've proposed giving sterilizations to those needing welfare but it's been met with harsh opposition let's say.

@nerdman
Sterilization?? Ew, no, that's irreversible. Birth control is far better. Trojans and preventative pills and such.
@dsfgs @kick @mewmew @shampoobottle @a7