the PRC implemented the "great firewall" principally to gatekeep access to chinese citizens from western IT giants and give domestic IT entities time to develop and a virtual monopoly over the market

the US moving to ban PRC IT services is just a tit-for-tat response in kind under the guise of "combatting foreign surveillance" or feigning concern for the privacy of US citizens

@kino the PRC implemented the "great firewall" principally to --
censor better

@Stellar that's actually not true

@kino @Stellar And if it was... so? Why is censoring dangerous movements bad.

@kaikatsu @kino @Stellar Because bad inevitably becomes "against some authority and status quo".

@lanodan @kaikatsu @Stellar you act like western IT giants and media entities aren't dedicated to censorship and control and are just these totally benign and completely impartial beings wielding virtually hegemonic power over all the services and information that citizens receive/digest

i guess if it supports a liberal agenda it's inherently a "good thing" and "neutral" vs. being ulterior or agenda-ized

@kino @Stellar @kaikatsu Don't fucking assume I support the censorship done by tech giants, I don't support tech giants at fucking all.

Also I am for free speech (but not without consequences) and open access.
And good/neutral/bad is way too much a matter of point of view and opinions/principles.

@lanodan @kino @Stellar Free speech is not free, especially "not without consequences". Absolute freedom will always become the will of the majority over the will of the minority. To balance this out would require upholding some peoples voices louder than others, something that requires intervention.

What has "free speech" created in the western internet? Pushing children to suicide, advocating for drinking bleach as disinfectant, planning of terrorist events and murders. Is freedom worth hurting the most silent voices? Why is management of the peoples expression bad? Should we all say whatever comes across our minds and be rewarded for it with upvotes and other serotonin rewards? Why should deadly fake news propogate in an isolated room of Truth™️ while it attracts people in?

@kaikatsu @Stellar @kino My gosh, stop your US bullshit.

Absolute freedom is oppression, your freedom should stop where mine begins.

And sure, freedom does damages but if you want too much security then you'll have no freedom. And as power corrupts your silenced voices will be the one against the power, doing a vicious circle where it goes even more uncontrolled.
Also this is about law, not about society or platforming, you can still punch someone in the face.
And "fake news" basically means news that the government didn't approuve, funny thing is that governments often fail on this part. For example France tried to validate some articles against facts officially (which goes against freedom of the press) of course the thing got stopped when an official spread bullshit and got called out by the press.

@lanodan @Stellar @kino You dont support free speech if you support censorship of someones voice period. Thats what free speech is. You just want Censored But Not The Things I Like speech. Which is really no different than how it is in China - threats against people and the state are censored, not much else. Just stop calling it free speech when you have a clear intention to censor.

@kaikatsu @lanodan @Stellar yeah p. much this. everyone talks about "free speech" but nobody genuinely believes in it (or they'll add conditions like "but not without consequences" which is oxymoronic when added to "free speech"). free speech is a meme.