I really should stop forgetting that people do not know XML.
@lanodan XML is not nice
@sjw Neither is a hammer, but when used correctly it's a great tool.
@lanodan I prefer json or toml
@lanodan RSS uses XML no?
@sjw Yeah, and?
A lot of people, feed readers/aggregators included can't hep but butcher it into JSON.
Which are entirely different kinds of data formats.
XML is for text-based extensible formats.
JSON is just, here, basic raw text-based data structure.
For example, you entirely loose the extensibility bits with JSON.
This is probably the whole reason why Google wants to do create JSON feeds, 3rd part of EEE.
A lot of people, feed readers/aggregators included can't hep but butcher it into JSON.
Which are entirely different kinds of data formats.
XML is for text-based extensible formats.
JSON is just, here, basic raw text-based data structure.
For example, you entirely loose the extensibility bits with JSON.
This is probably the whole reason why Google wants to do create JSON feeds, 3rd part of EEE.
@lanodan doesn't XMPP use XML too? Also, how exactly do you lose the extendability with json?
@sjw You only have one namespace.
JSON formats are cathedral style by essense, only one entity can say if you can use something or not. Meanwhile XML doesn’t gives a damn if you shove another namespace (which can be your own) inside of it. That’s an inheritance from SGML btw and it allowed for HTML5 to effectively be able to add new elements without every non-up-to-date browser potentially choking on it or failing to fallback to older style elements.
Like roughly <video src="https://example.org/video.mp4"><object src="https://example.org/video.mp4"><a href="https://example.org/video.mp4">video.mp4</a></object></video> can’t be done in JSON, while that would work from the first web browser to the very latest with probably okay compatibility for Mozilla 1.0.
@lanodan Huh, yeah, I see what you mean. I just think it's ugly. 
@lanodan Gemini Pleroma FE when?
Pleroma should support the finger protocol too.
Pleroma should support the finger protocol too.
@sjw @lanodan Okay, fine, FSE now supports finger, here's a script and some screenshat.
fedifinger
screenshit.png
fedifinger
screenshit.png
@p That's awesome, I didn't realize fse had ssh I only knew about poast. Tried it just now and I'm apparently a tard or something. roboneko@fse, my password, connection closed? Am I doing something wrong?
@p well fuck, thanks for the screengrab guess I'll try resetting password I don't think I've logged in for "a while" time to finally validate the email as well I guess
@p @p Huh. So my email wasn't even in there, adding it required a password, that was successful (?!), apparently you don't have a verification flow (?!), I tried changing my password, now I can ssh, I think it doesn't like either ! or - not sure which. Also not sure if it's your system or mine that's at fault. Any idea?
Also apparently changing my password invalidated all the existing auth tokens.
Also apparently changing my password invalidated all the existing auth tokens.
@roboneko
> apparently you don't have a verification flow
What would I be verifying and why? FSE is exactly as close to Revolver as I can get with a Pleroma instance hosted in a place.
> apparently you don't have a verification flow
What would I be verifying and why? FSE is exactly as close to Revolver as I can get with a Pleroma instance hosted in a place.
@roboneko
> Also apparently changing my password invalidated all the existing auth tokens.
Do you not think that's appropriate? That is what one does.
> Also apparently changing my password invalidated all the existing auth tokens.
Do you not think that's appropriate? That is what one does.
@p email, I've almost never encountered a site that didn't verify email addresses with a link since they get used for password resets and users are notorious for typoing them
also if you deal with less technically literate users (admittedly not a problem for this part of fedi) then for whatever dumb reason there's seemingly no end to people insisting that {name}@{service} is theirs even though it's not
but anyway no worries, I was just expressing surprise not requesting change
also if you deal with less technically literate users (admittedly not a problem for this part of fedi) then for whatever dumb reason there's seemingly no end to people insisting that {name}@{service} is theirs even though it's not
but anyway no worries, I was just expressing surprise not requesting change
@roboneko @p reading this reminds me that .eth addresses on ENS require ETH gas fees to change the address and metadata associated with it (i had to pay like 15$ to change our onion address)
imagine if no longer were you able to easily reset and you had to pay to reset your password. a lot of actual 'hacking' (cracking or the skiddy social engineering) would stop and it would absolutely abolish people forgetting passwords because if u had to pay 15$ every time you forgot something you'd learn quick not to forget
not advocating for it, but i do see this as an avenue for authentication in the future
imagine if no longer were you able to easily reset and you had to pay to reset your password. a lot of actual 'hacking' (cracking or the skiddy social engineering) would stop and it would absolutely abolish people forgetting passwords because if u had to pay 15$ every time you forgot something you'd learn quick not to forget
not advocating for it, but i do see this as an avenue for authentication in the future
@roboneko
> email, I've almost never encountered a site that didn't verify email addresses with a link since they get used for password resets and users are notorious for typoing them
That's occasionally useful for resetting passwords (assuming your email is more secure than whatever other account) if it is expected that humans cannot do this but the reason this is done 99% of the time is one of two reasons: a data grab (marketing or for the chop shop) or the wishful thinking that an identity and an email address are the same.
I don't want people's email addresses. I don't care to tie anyone's identity to any other services. This is the internet: trying to rely on real names or on email addresses or any of that is useless, no one knows you're a dog. Who are you? The hell does it matter who you are? It's boomer shit, assign everyone a persistent ID, then a credit system, then all of this other horseshit. Then we build an internet and you are what you do, and now Twitter wants your phone number, email address, DOB, "add a location to your tweets", Facebook RealID™, fucking Gab "Send us your government-issued ID!" It's fucked up and retarded. Not participating.
Not just that, but "these emails are all fake" is a security measure: FSE's database is not valuable for marketing purposes, the government has no reason to seize anything because there's nothing there, and I don't block Tor addresses. Someone shows up on FSE using Tor and their email address is "asdf@asdf.jklsemicolon" and that's fine with *everyone* except the cops and the advertisers, and cops and advertisers can get fucked. This is one of the problems with Google: scammers and petty thieves and governments all want into someone's Google account because Google eats every byte of data you produce. Logging here is minimal and I don't want anyone's personal information.
We get a lot of traffic from China, we have people in the PRC with FSE accounts, you know? Yandex crawls FSE more often than Google does. And all these platforms are kicking off people that are in Russia or that say we should just back off from Russia. Freedom of speech is fragile and very few people enjoy the free exercise of this human right, anonymity pushes it back.
This is not a very serious place, but there are some things I take very seriously: security of the system, availability of the system, the safe exercise of freedom by people on the system. If people do dumb shit like forget their password and they need an admin to reset it so they've got to ping me from an alt or something, I'll get them a password link, sure. Most people don't need that so if I have to do some "Okay, how do I know you're you?" routine with them over DMs (if people list their alt in their bio, the dance is less necessary), then that's fine: in exchange for that tiny amount of effort (once every two or three months, I think) the entire system works better, with less friction, better security, better anonymity.
> I was just expressing surprise
This shouldn't surprise anyone. Apparently I don't post about this shit enough if it surprises people that actually have accounts here.
WHO_ARE_YOU.png
> email, I've almost never encountered a site that didn't verify email addresses with a link since they get used for password resets and users are notorious for typoing them
That's occasionally useful for resetting passwords (assuming your email is more secure than whatever other account) if it is expected that humans cannot do this but the reason this is done 99% of the time is one of two reasons: a data grab (marketing or for the chop shop) or the wishful thinking that an identity and an email address are the same.
I don't want people's email addresses. I don't care to tie anyone's identity to any other services. This is the internet: trying to rely on real names or on email addresses or any of that is useless, no one knows you're a dog. Who are you? The hell does it matter who you are? It's boomer shit, assign everyone a persistent ID, then a credit system, then all of this other horseshit. Then we build an internet and you are what you do, and now Twitter wants your phone number, email address, DOB, "add a location to your tweets", Facebook RealID™, fucking Gab "Send us your government-issued ID!" It's fucked up and retarded. Not participating.
Not just that, but "these emails are all fake" is a security measure: FSE's database is not valuable for marketing purposes, the government has no reason to seize anything because there's nothing there, and I don't block Tor addresses. Someone shows up on FSE using Tor and their email address is "asdf@asdf.jklsemicolon" and that's fine with *everyone* except the cops and the advertisers, and cops and advertisers can get fucked. This is one of the problems with Google: scammers and petty thieves and governments all want into someone's Google account because Google eats every byte of data you produce. Logging here is minimal and I don't want anyone's personal information.
We get a lot of traffic from China, we have people in the PRC with FSE accounts, you know? Yandex crawls FSE more often than Google does. And all these platforms are kicking off people that are in Russia or that say we should just back off from Russia. Freedom of speech is fragile and very few people enjoy the free exercise of this human right, anonymity pushes it back.
This is not a very serious place, but there are some things I take very seriously: security of the system, availability of the system, the safe exercise of freedom by people on the system. If people do dumb shit like forget their password and they need an admin to reset it so they've got to ping me from an alt or something, I'll get them a password link, sure. Most people don't need that so if I have to do some "Okay, how do I know you're you?" routine with them over DMs (if people list their alt in their bio, the dance is less necessary), then that's fine: in exchange for that tiny amount of effort (once every two or three months, I think) the entire system works better, with less friction, better security, better anonymity.
> I was just expressing surprise
This shouldn't surprise anyone. Apparently I don't post about this shit enough if it surprises people that actually have accounts here.
WHO_ARE_YOU.png
@roboneko
> time to finally validate the email as well I guess
I like your optimism about what kind of shit FSE has enabled.
The email addresses are fictitious on FSE. We don't validate them, FSE doesn't send email. Try logging in from a private tab. Also make sure that you actually have the right port number.
Also it works on Plan 9's ssh.
alsofromplan9.png
> time to finally validate the email as well I guess
I like your optimism about what kind of shit FSE has enabled.
The email addresses are fictitious on FSE. We don't validate them, FSE doesn't send email. Try logging in from a private tab. Also make sure that you actually have the right port number.
Also it works on Plan 9's ssh.
alsofromplan9.png
@p Yeah I definitely have the port right because I was able to ssh in as soon as I changed my password to a purely alphanumeric one. It seems the special characters (! and -) were tripping it up. I have absolutely no idea how to debug what exactly was going wrong though.
@roboneko I definitely have some weird characters in mine so I don't know if it was that.
@p I need to know more. You have "shell" on pleroma? For a moment I thought you had a script that like bash could quary a node user, you are IN a node in a "shell" that's in the node? Haev you named it? How can I try it, I want this in my life.
@p anything that mouse free internet is something I want to explore use of, generally.
@Coyote Well, you should try bloat; works fine in lynx/w3m. neko's been working on RatFE, which also works in vt100 browsers.
@p I probably need a more functional browser, generally speaking, and some day I'll have time to explore one with vim bindings. I'm more interested in what's under the hood of the shell, and if I can drop into some vi editor for posting or if can be hacked to, to try to do some extentions once in neovim (pull content, edit, multiple buffers, that kind of shit).
@Coyote It's really just a REPL for posting. Check lib/pleroma/bbs/handler.ex , the "handle_command" functions handle commands.
@moth_ball @Coyote @lanodan @roboneko It's like a hydra, every time you ship one project, more spring up in its place.
@p @Coyote
> I don't think anyone's written an ncurses client.
I set out to do that (vt100, no ncurses) as something of a joke but got sidetracked. To date it's just a small script that fetches and cleans up public posts. All very silly. Might get back to it at some point.
After all, why shouldn't I shitpost from an fbdev tty with no dependencies beyond bash, curl, and python?
> I don't think anyone's written an ncurses client.
I set out to do that (vt100, no ncurses) as something of a joke but got sidetracked. To date it's just a small script that fetches and cleans up public posts. All very silly. Might get back to it at some point.
After all, why shouldn't I shitpost from an fbdev tty with no dependencies beyond bash, curl, and python?
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)-<*><
@Coyote It's a BBS mode, you have to enable it explicitly, it's one of the fun hacks lain did on April 1 one year.
RFC <= 2000 is a lot of fun if it's the former.
FSE supports gopher (built into Pleroma, try `lynx gopher://freespeechextremist.com/`, let's all love lain), ssh (built into Pleroma again, let's all love lain also, but only port 10022, `ssh -p 10022`, don't use port 22, it will likely get your IP black-holed), finger as of an hour ago (building support into Pleroma would be even better but this was a quick hack), git (via git-daemon).