@Calvin @djsumdog @coolboymew N64 is an overrated and terrible console (the games are good in spite of it's flaws). In fact, EB64 probably would have been finished if the system wasn't a nightmare to program for.

@xianc78 @djsumdog @coolboymew

N64 is an overrated and terrible console

You take that back, swine.

@Calvin @djsumdog @xianc78 @coolboymew He's right you know
Had some good games but the console was designed by an absolute maroon. Outside of a handful of games its library pales in comparison to that of the Saturn and PSX.

@Tadano @coolboymew @djsumdog @Calvin Saturn was also a nightmare to program for but people were willing to make 2D games for the system.

@xianc78 @coolboymew @djsumdog @Calvin Even then the library had outstanding 2D and 3D games especially looking at the JP exclusives. The thing had Fighters Megamix, Virtua Fighter, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Sakura Taisen and a fuckton more.

@xianc78 @djsumdog @coolboymew

the games are good in spite of it’s flaws. In fact, EB64 probably would have been finished if the system wasn’t a nightmare to program for.

This is all true, though. The N64 is a very unique console and that goes both ways. I see its flaws as quirks and desire to work with them, rather than against them. Either way, it is amazing what people managed to accomplish with it and what they probably could have, had they been allowed (or forced) to continue working with it for a few years or so longer (like Dinosaur Planet).

@Calvin @djsumdog @coolboymew
>The N64 is a very unique console and that goes both ways.
Sure. I'll take Rare's and Factor 5's word and say that their games took advantage of the cartridge format (using cart space like additional RAM), but you can only take advantage of the format if you are good at optimizing. However, most N64 games feel like they had wasted potential just because of the cartridge problem among other things.

@xianc78 @djsumdog @coolboymew

but you can only take advantage of the format if you are good at optimizing

I see this as a good thing and I wish more designers conceived their games from this perspective, instead of from a pragmatic and marketable one.

the cartridge problem among other things

The inherent lack of space? Or something else?

@Tadano

but the console was designed by an absolute maroon

Moron*? How would you contrast it with your idea of “good design”? Complaints about the trident design don’t really count.

@Calvin @Tadano @djsumdog @coolboymew
>The inherent lack of space? Or something else?

Cartridge space, limited texture cache, the system being a nightmare to program for, Nintendo reserving certain microcode and not letting third-parties use it.

@xianc78
@Tadano @djsumdog @coolboymew
Yeah, that's what I thought. The cartidge space being limited was a bit of a problem, but I think a lot of that can be circumvented by combining procedural generation techniques with allocating space for that pseudo-RAM technique.
The limited texture cache is definitely a problem, but there may be ways around that, as well.
However, the issue of Nintendo not giving clear details and hiding stuff from developers is the biggest roadblock to that.

Any games you think are good examples of wasted potential?

@Calvin @Tadano @djsumdog @coolboymew I always felt that the two Zelda games could've included more content (both were originally DD games).

And I think most games could've used some voice acting, but it wasn't really common on the system.

@xianc78 @Calvin @Tadano @djsumdog OOT and MM are massive games for their time, AND still probably the top of the top of the gen

@coolboymew @Calvin @djsumdog @xianc78 Moreso Majora's Mask IMO. OoT is good but Hyrule Field sucks ass and there hasn't been a game in Zelda that matched MM's atmosphere yet.

@Tadano @djsumdog @Calvin @coolboymew I like MM, but both Hyrule Field and Termina Field feel like over-glorified hub levels.

@xianc78 @Calvin @djsumdog @coolboymew Even in retrospect, I have to admit a lot of the cherished N64 games were only because that’s all that was available at the time. There are some undeniable masterpieces but most of the games, like with any other system, were quite crap.

@wrongthink @xianc78 @coolboymew @djsumdog Ironically, going through ROMs online has shown me how many games were actually really good, in one way or another. I think the N64 probably had one of the highest ratios or good to bad games, likely because not just anybody could make something for it. Another reason could be that something about it inspired people to be really creative in a way that other concoles didn’t, and that’s a big part of why people who say “I don’t know why, I just really like the console” feel that way about it. From what I hear about the Commodore 64, it sounds like it had a similar effect (what’s with the 64 Bit being so good?).