@ryo @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 html5 is the only html specification worth trying to salvage

@wowaname @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 The only good thing HTML5 has that other HTML's don't is video and audio support.
Other than that, XHTML 1.1 is the only true standard.

@ryo @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 i generate my websites in XHTML5, it is semantically more expressive than HTML4/XHTML1.1 with the new tags

@ryo @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 https://wowana.me/pages/htss.xht

@wowaname @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 Ah, never heard of that one.
Thanks, I'll read through it.

@ryo @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 it's literally a thing i drafted in a day and forgot about lol, but it gives an idea as to where i stand on html

@wowaname @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78

> Any HTML5 tag or attribute marked deprecated.
> Any HTML5 tag or attribute marked nonstandard and/or vendor-specific.

I don't think it's really sustainable in the long run, considering the WHATWG (which consists entirely of all the major browser makers, which also control the browser engines almost all browsers use these days) is still calling the shots that way.

To me it seems more like a cope to the problems HTML5 creates rather than an attempt to make the web less bloated.
But if it works for you, then so be it.
To me XHTML 1.1 is what works.

@ryo @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78
>problems HTML5 creates
you never really specified what problems those were. css3 and ecmascript are entirely divorced from html5. i don't support either of those going forward.

@ryo @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 in fact i think css is fucking useless

@PhenomX6 @kerosene @ryo @xianc78 i am HIGHLY sceptical of w3c/whatwg especially after pwning timbl so i dont just blindly go trusting them, the html5 working spec has been fine so far though

@PhenomX6 @kerosene @ryo @xianc78 im the closest thing to a w3c adversary youre gonna see in the wild too

@wowaname @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 Who is timbl though?
I think W3C is the lesser evil (which is still evil), but what really made me want to dump them was them going with Cuckflare, and therefore becoming inaccessible while using Tor.

@ryo @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78
>Who is timbl though?
someone who cant configure his irc client correctly https://www.w3.org/wiki/AdvisoryCommittee/2016-04-data-breach

oh also he invented the world wide web as you know it today

@ryo @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78
>I think W3C is the lesser evil
w3c is the clowniest group of greybeards that cling to the most retarded shit they can come up with and they have always been this way

@wowaname @kerosene @xianc78 @ryo I never used CSS when I made web pages in school for class and they wanted you to use CSS so desperately for some fucking reason. The only thing that's good about it is you can style several pages at once.

@PhenomX6 @wowaname @kerosene @ryo
>The only thing that's good about it is you can style several pages at once.

Which also can be done if you have sever-side scripting or static-site generation scripts (you can easily whip up a simple static-site generator in almost any scripting language). CSS should've been deprecated but HTML5 pretty much makes it mandatory to use CSS for styling. You can't even align text without CSS in HTML5.

@xianc78 @PhenomX6 @kerosene @ryo what in holy hell are you on about? html itself should not have any styling capabilities.

the only reason i use css still, is because there isnt a good web browser that shows me just the content of a page, and there arent good web standards that will promise me that webadmins will only serve me content in a format that doesn't require a thousand gigabytes of layout and scripts

@wowaname @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 Sounds like you might want to try browsing the internet using the Gemini protocol.
No JS, no CSS, though also no HTML.
But it's plain text.

@ryo @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 gemini has really bad design decisions, they could have kept it at the transport layer and it would have been "fine" but they went ahead and decided to have an opinion about TOFU (i know all about CAs i still prefer them for now from an administrative standpoint and from my specific threat model). plus the markdown soygoys are all on that shit. i use markdown but not as a final presentation format. i'd rather have a structured document language... like html or even some shit like docbook

@ryo @PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 have not seen one gmni client that doesnt look like an absolute meme too

@PhenomX6 @kerosene @ryo @xianc78 also i unironically like HTTP/1.1 and would rather use the "standard" MIME-like header format than anything else. it's easy just not to send a User-Agent or any of the other useless headers if you don't want to. only thing left is to convince good websites that this is ok (and good websites shouldnt even be blocking those UAs anyway because they arent misbehaving at all)

@PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 @ryo strictly from a security standpoint i prefer v8 over flash or java any day.

@wowaname @kerosene @xianc78 @ryo Well yeah, Flash was really bad in that regard because it was a literal black box.

@PhenomX6 @kerosene @xianc78 @ryo that had access to system resources

@kerosene @xianc78 @ryo it'd be better if the modern web browser was eradicated from every computing environment

@wowaname @kerosene @xianc78 For that to happen we'll need to eradicate the normies off the internet first.
Or otherwise we just move to the darknet, and let the clearnet continue to rot.
Let the normies roll in the shit they themselves have created.

@ryo @kerosene @xianc78
>eradicate the normies
no just stop being lazy and start designing better software and systems, thats what im doing. the normalfags are not getting in my way

@wowaname @kerosene @xianc78 I too am doing that, many of us are actually.
Though I don't think it's going to solve the problem of browsers being bloated pieces of shit if stuff doesn't get fixed on the browser level first, and we'd still have "based" people using soydev stuff like JS frameworks or frameworks for any other language that doesn't need any (like PHP and Go).

@ryo @kerosene @xianc78 my end goal for web browsers is to stop using them entirely. i already have native software for xmpp, telegram, email, soulseek, bittorrent, irc. i use mpv and youtube-dl to get around watching videos in my browser (plus my WM shoves all mpv windows onto my tv). it's good that you're also working on stuff but i'm telling you that "eradicating" any specific class of users from computing is very counterproductive and will amount to absolutely nothing except for a waste of your time

@ryo @kerosene @xianc78 what i mean is let soyjacks coom to their javascript while i write real stuff lol

@ryo @wowaname @kerosene @xianc78 This is the only answer.