but the ghost is cute
RE: https://detroitriotcity.com/objects/57619ad6-8e78-4973-85da-c91187a1ad5a
@Indigo @icedquinn I agree that he is a troll, but one time he tried to justify his claim with some Ayn Rand quote about Native Americans.
@Indigo @icedquinn I honestly don't care. I don't think it's fair to strawman libertarianism with any of her quotes because while she had a lot of influence on libertarianism, the fact of the matter is is that she never called herself a libertarian (in fact she even opposed it) and Libertarianism and Objectivism are ultimately separate ideologies.
From what I understand, pure-Objectivists don't even believe in private charity because that goes against someone's self-interests while Libertarians are okay with that as long as it's voluntary. To me, it just seems like her view is the embodiment of most strawman arguments against libertarianism: the idea that libertarians are (or want to be) anti-social hermits who are against altruism.
Personally, I never read any of her works. I've been told that her works are hard to read and understand, and those who have claimed to have read them are just LARPing.
That said, I think "the charity question," is pretty cleanly explained in AS, basically charity is only immoral if you're giving against your interests, if you're donating to a charity that will ultimately lead to a long term benefit for you in some way that's still kosh (EG: donating to a homeless shelter because having people sleeping in the streets is bad for business, so you're ultimately helping yourself by helping other people).
That's all semantics though, I agree that Objectivism and Libertarianism should be viewed as parallel, but separate ideologies.
@Indigo @icedquinn
>Atlas Shrugged is just too damn bloated though, I got through it, but I understand why a lot of people just can't finish it; you really need to be at least 60% with her in order to get into it
That's such a shame, otherwise I would recommend it, not to convert people necessarily, but to debunk some other shitty claim: that the science fiction genre is and has always been about Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism.
>That said, I think "the charity question," is pretty cleanly explained in AS, basically charity is only immoral if you're giving against your interests, if you're donating to a charity that will ultimately lead to a long term benefit for you in some way that's still kosh (EG: donating to a homeless shelter because having people sleeping in the streets is bad for business, so you're ultimately helping yourself by helping other people).
Of course most businesses would only ever donate out of their own self-interest, but when it comes to individuals I don't think donating to something that won't benefit you is immoral. Ultimately, people do selfless acts because it makes them feel good, so there really is no such thing as doing something against your self-interest. Though I do understand the dangers of being too altruistic where people take advantage of you. I know that from experience.
I think there's value that can be taken from Communist, Anarchist, and even Fascist authors to an extent. You just need to make sure you don't let your ideology become too singular, and retain the critical thinking to parse the good from the bad.
deontologists are worried about things like not approving laws just to go after someone you don't like, because it degrades social and moral fabric. consequentialists only care about needing an excuse to get rid of someone they don't like. similar to the problems of socialism vs capitalism; you can suffer in the hopes somethig might get better or get rich selling everyone down the river. surprising nobody, almost everyone picks #2
https://www.amazon.com/Mussolinis-Intellectuals-Fascist-Political-Thought/dp/0691127905
I was also low-key obsessed with Rotha Lintorn-Orman for a while, although even though she called herself one, whether she really counts as a Fascist or not is up for debate.
just don't point out communism and fascism are the same thing in a trench coat. they get extremely upset about that.
(the actual out is libertarian socialism but like nobody remembers that exists as an option)
sci-fi gave us sturgeons revelation (that >90% of any field is crap), and had a lot of speculative futurism, but since fantasy slop made it to space that's all its known for now and nobody really remembers sci-fi is about trying to predict what society would be like if some major invention was created