@fluffy @Galena Yes, it is broken. That is undeniable. But not voting doesn't help fix the problems at all. The system can be influenced and moved in the direction of fixing these problems.

@alexbuzzbee @Galena
>But not voting doesn't help fix the problems at all.
I never claimed it fixed any problems.

If you want to fix problems get rich and lobby.

@fluffy @Galena So if not voting doesn't help, why accuse voters of being "traitors?" That's extremely dangerous rhetoric.

@alexbuzzbee @Galena
>So if not voting doesn't help, why accuse voters of being "traitors?"
the consequences of not voting are not necessarily related to the behavior of voting. To wit: it's not always the case that if x is y then not x is not y. So I find this line of reasoning confused

>why accuse voters of being "traitors?"
Because legitimizing a corrupt institution enables it to further cause damage to the citizenry.

>That's extremely dangerous rhetoric.
Yes.

@fluffy @Galena If you acknowledge that your rhetoric is dangerous, why should I continue this conversation?

@alexbuzzbee @Galena Why would that cause any issue? "Dangerous rhetoric", as the word is colloquially used, does not actually endanger anything but ideas.

Although I suppose if you want an excuse to leave gracefully, now is as good of a time as any. Perhaps you are too invested in the voting process, perhaps due to state propaganda from public school, to question it. That's completely understandable.

@fluffy @Galena Endangering the concept of democracy is not something I am willing to allow. Is that or is that not your intention?

@alexbuzzbee @Galena
>Endangering the concept of democracy is not something I am willing to allow.
would you say that, no matter what anyone said, you wouldn't change your mind about the concept of democracy?

@fluffy @Galena Unless I am shown very strong evidence to the contrary, I will persist in my belief that democracy, when correctly functioning, is the best currently-available system of government to protect civil liberties and avoid certain hazardous extremes.

@alexbuzzbee @Galena Sounds utopic.

There are many legitimate criticisms of democracy, from Plato and Thucydides to Jefferson. You should probably balance your "belief" with some scholarship because you sound like a political radical.

@fluffy @Galena "Democracy is good" doesn't sound like an extreme position to me.

@alexbuzzbee @Galena

The famous quote goes, "democracy isn't good but it's better than the other choices", so yes, unless you mean it in the absolutely broadest sense, yes, it is an extreme position.

'X is good' is always a radical position. Reality is nuanced, and what is good depends on many factors.

for example, democracy was a disaster in post cold-war russia. It was a disaster for Iraq. Often, in poor countries, democracy means that rich foreign organizations can buy up the parliament and get exclusive privileges to exploit the natural resources. Most recently, this happened in Ukraine.

It's not necessarily bad. It's just one possible political organization.

Anyway, this whole topic is not really related because we are stuck with the american political system.

@fluffy @alexbuzzbee @Galena
ur mom is good

@LennartMathiassen @Galena @alexbuzzbee very extreme

@fluffy @Galena The American system is broken. It needs fixing. But the core democratic mechanisms are in my opinion functional. We should use them to fix the problems. Watch out for attempts at election interference, but keep voting. I think that is my final position in this discussion.

@alexbuzzbee @Galena May the gods grant that your voting makes a big difference.

@fluffy @alexbuzzbee

@Galena @fluffy There is dangerous corruption in the press, which is, I believe, what the original version of this compilation was trying to highlight. That does not mean that the concept of something being dangerous to democracy is itself somehow problematic.

@alexbuzzbee @fluffy This conversation reminded me of the clip, and I thought it was funny and relevant. I posted it before you mentioned endangering democracy.

@Galena @alexbuzzbee https://twitter.com/UncleSamsNation/status/1224739337432129536