EA
Electronic arts
Worst company in US
WTF were they smoking?
Let me explain.
I received a free deluxe copy of battlefront 2 (Still free on epic). Not only was it free, but is is an ultra-deluxe edition. But what exactly does it unlock? It does unlock 95 percent of all skins.
Why does it matter? Well...
It is a multiplayer game with 2 types of loot hidden in loot boxes. Skins, that do not effect gameplay in slightest and stat cards, that change your abilities. There used to be a 3ed unlockable heroes, but these were removed after a backlash.
So, I got a new game. When I play MP, I am in statistical disadvantage, that will make the game unfair/boring. Ok, but at least I can play it to..... wait a minute. I already have the skins...
They took the strong psychological incentive to play the game, and threw it away, so when I play to get loot boxes, I know I won't unlock anything I care about. 
I got a finished game without a new game button.
EA... you cannot explain this level of stupidity.
Not even once, not even for free.
And in regards to Battlefront 2: I didn't keep up with it, I only know how it was when it was released (horrible) and that they supposedly reworked it after Disney slapped them behind the scenes.
I still can't imagine that they fixed it, because it seemed fundamentally broken and, most importantly, boring - I know, hard to imagine for a Star Wars game, but that's EA's multiplayer magic.
As for the unlocked skins: I see your point, but shouldn't a game be fun on its own? Surely there are some things left to unlock, modes to play and also achievements.
@okabe_rintarou
Obviously the game "should" be fun on it's own. But even though lootboxes get a ton of deserved hate, unlock system is a HUGE motivation to play some games.
But in this case, the game feels empty. Never seen anything like it.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @okabe_rintarou
WRONG
Yes, it is a manipulation. And yes, basic game loop should be fun even without unlock system.
But when you download a game, you agree to be manipulated for fun. Every social interaction we make is manipulative. Every talk with both boss and friends is full of manipulation.
But ok, I get it. I value honesty as well. Next time your GF asks, if she looks fat, please, do answer honestly even though she agreed to being manipulated by asking trap question...
I agree that all of these things are "manipulation" in some way and that games, by their nature, are exactly about that.
But there is a distinction here. A good game is fun without any kind of unlock system or artificial scarcity. You play it for the sake of enjoyment you get out of it and if it is not fun anymore you stop playing. For me those games are/where SC2, DOTA2 and EU4.
On the other hand you have games which legitimately made me angry, but I kept on playing them for the "hit" of some in game currency or gain of some in game progression.
My examples would be LoL and Hearthstone.
Yes, I agree to be manipulated to have fun, that it is the "contract" between me and the game developer. But I did not agree to being guilt tripped into being miserable by your awful progression systems!
And this is where the issue lies. If your progression system is what keeps me playing, then you haven't made a game, you created a virtual job for me to waste my time on.
Nowadays I play quite a few games and if I do, I always make sure that I am not doing it because I feel some obligation towards the progression systems.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @okabe_rintarou
Riight...
I mean, nothing you said was wrong, but you seem to separate job ang games for some reason. My job is literaly a game. I get a task every morning, and I try to het "a high score" for a reward. It is fun and I have a goal that I can see getting closer to every single day.
But I was not emplayed my entire life. So, my brain has to be looking for this kind of stimulation elsewhere.
That does not mean, that they are not the same to the brain. I work every day in my job to be better and get better rewards. So I do in games.
Where exactly do you see the difference?
>Where exactly do you see the difference?
Games aren't real. You don't get anything out of playing them, except enjoyment.
If that enjoyment is replaced by a sense of meaningless obligation you are paying some corporation for the displeasure of taking part in some meaningless grinding.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @okabe_rintarou
Again you seem to miss the point completelly.
games DO pay me with enjoyment and in-game rewards. If they do not pay me enough, I quit.
Job does pay me with enjoyment and money. if they do not pay me enough I quit.
Now, if you think that money and enjoyment are not comparable, then you should research ways of exchanging money for enjoyment...
Progression systems are never fun. They are about guilt tripping you.
On some YouTube stream, years ago, a very religious Jew said something to the effect of "smiling is a sin". Which, at that point, was probably the weirdest thing I have ever heard in my entire life.
And even now, I am unsure if he may not have been right. Not really in a religious sense, but even in a "secular" moral one.
What I believe is that enjoyment needs to have a concrete purpose, I enjoy reading, I enjoy learning,I enjoy socializing with friends. And all of these have concrete purposes.
And I believe that video games can have such a concrete purpose, sometimes you need to get away from reality in order to face it again tomorrow. Some people use alcohol, or other drugs for this purpose but in that sense games seem far preferable.
But when you get to the point where you are just doing things for enjoyments sake you will start hurting yourself and will get to the point where you become psychologically addicted and that addiction is what game developers want to facilitate with progression systems.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @okabe_rintarou
"Progression systems are never fun"
If this is your base assumption, then no ammount of arguing will change your ming I guess.
what a shame.
Why are they fun?
What is fun about them?
What I meant when I said that, is that the addition of a progression system onto a game is just an incentive to keep the player engaged, even if everything else in the game is repulsing him.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @okabe_rintarou
In that case, I have no idea what you're talking about. If the game is boring, it's time to quit. No matter what colors will the boring game have 30h down the line.
I guess I am dumb this way. I would quit my job as well if it had nothing to offer to me. And I did, so why would I keep playing a game like that?
I do not think that the phenomena you're describing is something I can immagine existing.
I don't get it.
To keep players engaged beyond the point of a healthy activity and to make them feel a sense of obligation towards playing the game.
Maybe you are not susceptible to that, but certainly many people are.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @okabe_rintarou
Yeah, daily quests are anoying... Dayly logins pointless.
But these are not the progression system itself.
As long as you can ignore these "direct orders" and gring on your own paste, it can highly enhance your game.
as I said, I get it. The ammount of videos complaining about "endless GTAV grind/ Endless War Thunder grind" are everywhere, but guess what. I love playing both of these games, because they do have a good gameplay loop. and it is enhanced by knowing what you are going to get next.
Obviously, there are some players who end up anoyed and spending money instead, but I don't care. I loke playing the game. Skipping the progression would be killing the game itself.
>Skipping the progression would be killing the game itself.
Why?
There are a lot of games without any progression systems that I have enjoyed.
Why does a game need a progression system if you enjoy the core game play?
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @okabe_rintarou
I am sure you're joking now.
Games do become stale much faster when they do not change across time. That is why I louthe Dota Counter strike etc. These games might have a "fun loop", but without any progression, they get boring really fast.
Congratulation... you played 3 rounds of Dota, nothing new for you here... EVER....
That is why I like progression system. The game does transform. Flying jets is different from flying bi-planes. And you value jets, since you "spent" time getting them.
Yes, I get you don't enjoy it as much as I do, but what exactly do you not understand?
My questions weren't jokes.
>These games might have a "fun loop", but without any progression, they get boring really fast.
My most played games are DOTA2 and EU4, both games have changed drastically over time, but neither has a meaningful progression system.
>nothing new for you here... EVER....
Huh? Every game is different though and you get better over time. Additionally there are patches, new heroes, new items, map changed, balance changes.
>And you value jets, since you "spent" time getting them.
Why?
They offer the exact same gameplay as if you had them from the start.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @okabe_rintarou
I said that I do understand your side, but different brains do work differently. (big surprise)
Is there anything you do not understand about my opinion on the topic?
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>unlock system is a HUGE motivation to play some games.
But they shouldn't be. That is just a way for game companies to trick your brain, it is LITERALLY just psychological manipulation with the worst intent. Sadly it works really well.
If a game relies on creating artificial scarcity to be "fun" it is just evil. It is a time waster, it seeks to enslave(yes, this is quite a strong word) on a psychological level.