systemd haters arguing about pid1 is like car enthusiasts yelling that only space frame is the only good car chassis and how monocoque and ladder frames are abominations of mankind

@hj Well systemd haters tend to quite be {sys,net}admins. So in your analogy, truck or taxi drivers.

@lanodan @hj frankly one thing systemd did right is that some things are pretty simple like manipluating services and power

@meeper @hj writing services seems okay but tbh, just treat the old debian initscripts like puke and the rest looks fine.

And finding where the fuck the service/unit/… file is is a mess.
On any system it's basically always in /etc/rc.d or /etc/init.d but for system sometimes it seems to be in /usr/lib

@lanodan @meeper it's a bit annoying but in general systemd unit definitions are:

/etc/systemd/(user|system) -> admin-defined units
/usr/lib/systemd/(user|system) -> package-installed units
/lib/systemd/system -> necessary system units

difference between /usr/lib/systemd and /lib/systemd is similar to bin and sbin i guess

@hj @lanodan @meeper all arguments against systemd pale in comparison to the only one against sysvinit: it has fucking turing-complete scripts in shell as unit config files

@pomstan @lanodan @hj

Nobody who hates sysd is saying sysvinit is good, and I think that arguement is misinformed lol

@pomstan @hj @lanodan Shell scripts as config files is because they are literally sourced as the service runs, they are literally the same language in which the service itself is written, so you can consider it to be some code that runs before the execution and that's fine, because shell is the command line interface language

in constrast to something like javascript in polkit (also by redhat )

@meeper @hj @lanodan shell is not an acceptable language for system programming.

@pomstan @lanodan @hj Init scripts aren't system programming

they are literally scripts and shell-like is the ideal language for that

@meeper @lanodan @pomstan >shell-like is the ideal language for that

every single time i have to write a shell script i wish i'd rather wrote a node.js script

@hj @meeper @pomstan You're a frontend person come on, stop.

Also well, SmartOS allows that in apparently a nice way, they even managed to get the system debugger to understand NodeJS.

@lanodan @meeper @pomstan i would rather write python scripts and I don't even know python. I'm just saying that shell scripts have atrocious syntax and semantics. I'd rather write BASIC or PASCAL.

@hj @lanodan @meeper @pomstan If you're hating writing a shell script it's because it's too big. Shell scripts work perfectly fine for smaller scripts. Otherwise yeah it's a struggle.

@welt @meeper @lanodan @pomstan i'm strugging to write loops and if statements or do some basic structure manipulation (split string by spaces), if something isn't a simple alias i'm in pain

@hj @meeper @welt @pomstan Watch me try to write JS and even though I know this fucking language it's always a weird shit to me.

@lanodan @meeper @welt @pomstan i mean at the very least it's if (shit === poop) { takeAShit() }; not fucking [["$shit" -eq poop]]; shitYourPants and such, i could do a string.split(/.../) instead of fucking around with sed and xargs.

@hj @lanodan @meeper @pomstan

I mean you don’t need to use the double []

#!/bin/sh if ! [ -e build/static ]; then mkdir -p build/static fi export MKD2HTML="discount-mkd2html" # Some distros name the binaries differently since # they have somewhat generic names. if ! command -v discount-mkd2html 1> /dev/null; then if ! command -v mkd2html 1> /dev/null; then printf "Could not find a discount binary." 1>&2 exit 1 fi export MKD2HTML="mkd2html" fi for src in *.md; do export NEW_FILENAME=${src%.md}.html $MKD2HTML -header '<link rel=icon href="static/logo.svg">' -css static/style.css < "$src" > "build/$NEW_FILENAME" done cp static/* build/static/

Here’s a small script I wrote recently, I don’t think it’s that bad in terms of writing and reading.

@welt @meeper @lanodan @pomstan i understand like 10% of this script