@Dicer
I have noticed, that the moment a leftie mentions any number, I quit.

Because it never leads to a deep converstation. These people don't know what the number means. They don't care how it was collected/manipulated etc. I don't even know if they have a source, and I don't care.

If they talk about their experience, we both know what we're talking about. If we're talking about ideas, we both know what we're talking about.

But when soydier uses numbers, they use numbers, they think they are arguing facts. But they are actually arguing their interpretation of propaganda written by a jusranist, who might not understand a study, that might have been rigged for funding... And that is MUCH worse then personal experience.