@Vsolid
Nazi Germany really isn't the best example of socialism "working" since it came and went in 12 years. The United States Constitution was put into effect in 1789, and while that document gets violated pretty routinely, the USA's regime longevity at 232 years, or about 20 times that of Nazi Germany. That's an order of magnitude.
@mooraycowhen
Nazi Germany really isn't the best example of socialism "working" since it came and went in 12 years. The United States Constitution was put into effect in 1789, and while that document gets violated pretty routinely, the USA's regime longevity at 232 years, or about 20 times that of Nazi Germany. That's an order of magnitude.
@mooraycowhen
福神龍
@NEETzsche @Vsolid @mooraycowhen You wouldn't consider the failure of Nazi Germany to autocratic rule and not socialism? I wouldn't attribute the longevity of the USA to Capitalism but to social contract theory and the balance of power dynamics.
@anon00110
Nazi Germany was being cited as an example of socialism "working" when it quite noticeably failed.
@Vsolid @mooraycowhen
Nazi Germany was being cited as an example of socialism "working" when it quite noticeably failed.
@Vsolid @mooraycowhen
@NEETzsche @Vsolid @mooraycowhen Do you think it would have been a long term success had it not been for the war?
@anon00110
Hard to say. Their economy was based on conquest, which isn't sustainable, but a lot of empires have transitioned from economies based around conquest to ones based around commerce or whatever else, thus extending that empire's longevity, so that isn't the direct indicator against a successful post-WW2 Nazi victory that your average anti-Nazi historical speculator insists it is.
Fact of the matter is, though, Nazi Germany was not a success. Listing it as one is not correct.
@Vsolid @mooraycowhen
Hard to say. Their economy was based on conquest, which isn't sustainable, but a lot of empires have transitioned from economies based around conquest to ones based around commerce or whatever else, thus extending that empire's longevity, so that isn't the direct indicator against a successful post-WW2 Nazi victory that your average anti-Nazi historical speculator insists it is.
Fact of the matter is, though, Nazi Germany was not a success. Listing it as one is not correct.
@Vsolid @mooraycowhen
@Leitis @NEETzsche @Vsolid @anon00110 @mooraycowhen he believes in the gay cope version of history where nothing actually makes sense lel
@Arty24
>Nazi Germany is listed as an example of a socialism that "worked"
>gets conquered in 12 years
I'm not the one coping, here.
@Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110 @mooraycowhen
>Nazi Germany is listed as an example of a socialism that "worked"
>gets conquered in 12 years
I'm not the one coping, here.
@Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110 @mooraycowhen
@NEETzsche @Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110 Let's use a better analogy: if you create an extremely efficient/profitable business and then I, a business competitor, burn it down, does that mean you are a business failure, or does it simply mean I am an arsonist?
@mooraycowhen
That's not a good analogy at all. You are aware that not getting conquered is one of the basic objectives of a successful regime, yes? And that while all eventually do fail, failing right away doesn't speak to the efficacy of your regime? Like, this is really basic stuff. Middle school tier shit.
@Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110
That's not a good analogy at all. You are aware that not getting conquered is one of the basic objectives of a successful regime, yes? And that while all eventually do fail, failing right away doesn't speak to the efficacy of your regime? Like, this is really basic stuff. Middle school tier shit.
@Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110
@NEETzsche @Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110 It's a fantastic analogy as evidenced by your inability to actually criticize it directly.
Ligma, midwit.
Ligma, midwit.
@mooraycowhen
It's trivial to actually criticize your analogy and I did. Running a regime isn't running a business. Regimes are subject to hostile foreign entities fucking with them and if a regime can't handle it for even a single generation then that regime is an abject failure. Good game, no rematch, faggot.
@Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110
It's trivial to actually criticize your analogy and I did. Running a regime isn't running a business. Regimes are subject to hostile foreign entities fucking with them and if a regime can't handle it for even a single generation then that regime is an abject failure. Good game, no rematch, faggot.
@Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110
@NEETzsche @Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110 No shit running a regime isn't running a business, that's why it's called an *analogy*, and in this analogy the business (analogous to the economic system of National Socialist Germany) was also subject to a hostile entity fucking with it (the arsonist, which is analogous to the French, British, Soviet, and American empires).
If four global empires gang up on you and destroy you (Norm MacDonald voice: "and it was close!") then the political economy employed can hardly be blamed beyond the fact that it was the motivation behind these empires teaming up to destroy you in the first place. But certainly not even you are gay enough to make the argument that "the National Socialists should have been less based and then maybe Shlomo would have let them live" *glorp glorp boot licking noises*
You're in no position to be calling anyone a faggot, given all the Jew cock you are actively sucking and the Kosher semen you are guzzling down as if your life depended on it.
If four global empires gang up on you and destroy you (Norm MacDonald voice: "and it was close!") then the political economy employed can hardly be blamed beyond the fact that it was the motivation behind these empires teaming up to destroy you in the first place. But certainly not even you are gay enough to make the argument that "the National Socialists should have been less based and then maybe Shlomo would have let them live" *glorp glorp boot licking noises*
You're in no position to be calling anyone a faggot, given all the Jew cock you are actively sucking and the Kosher semen you are guzzling down as if your life depended on it.
@mooraycowhen
>No shit running a regime isn't running a business, that's why it's called an *analogy*
Your analogy explicitly rejects directly relevant facts. So, you said I can't address your analogy, but I did, by pointing out that it rejects directly relevant facts. Like I said, man, no rematch.
@Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110
>No shit running a regime isn't running a business, that's why it's called an *analogy*
Your analogy explicitly rejects directly relevant facts. So, you said I can't address your analogy, but I did, by pointing out that it rejects directly relevant facts. Like I said, man, no rematch.
@Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110
@NEETzsche @Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110 The relevant facts are that Germany had a very successful economic program from 33-39 and was crushed by a Jewish conspiracy, since the Jews despised that Hitler proved the German people could be successful without Jewish democracy and Jewish liberal economics. The Jews, using the combined might of four Jew controlled empires that far outmatched the Germans in one to one comparisons of statistics like manpower, equipment, resources, industry and geographic position, waged a war of annihilation against Germany and the National Socialists and yet the Germans under the NS government fought incredibly fiercely and had an amazing loss exchange ratio, although it was not enough to deal with these four global empires.
You are the only one ignoring these facts.
You are the only one ignoring these facts.
The relevant facts are that Nazi Germany didn’t succeed because it failed right away. Your woulda coulda shoulda copes don’t qualify as an argument and that’s all you offered me, here. We can maybe discuss why Nazi Germany failed so quickly, but before we can get to that point you’re going to have to stop coping and admit that it was, ultimately, a failure, unlike regimes with greater longevity.
@NEETzsche @Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110 "The relevant facts are Nazi Germany didn't succeed because it failed"...this is a tautology...and you are a queer.
@mooraycowhen @Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @anon00110 It is a tautology. I demonstrated that it failed, that it didn't "work." That was the matter up for debate. We can continue and change the topic to _why_ they failed, but not before you admit _that_ they failed.
So, do you want to do? Admit that I'm right, and continue, or cope, and part ways?
So, do you want to do? Admit that I'm right, and continue, or cope, and part ways?
@NEETzsche @mooraycowhen @Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid
Changing the goal posts now and trying to focus on the "regime" failing and not Socialism. The regime failing isn't the same thing as the economic system not working.
You don't understand the difference and it's a waste to explain the linkages. The economic system didn't fail. War destroyed the country.
You're heuristics are flawed, your conclusion is invalid.
Changing the goal posts now and trying to focus on the "regime" failing and not Socialism. The regime failing isn't the same thing as the economic system not working.
You don't understand the difference and it's a waste to explain the linkages. The economic system didn't fail. War destroyed the country.
You're heuristics are flawed, your conclusion is invalid.
@anon00110
The goalpost then: Nazi Germany is an example of a successful socialism
Refutation then: Nazi Germany was an abject failure due to being destroyed so quickly and so it wasn't an example of a successful socialism
Refutation now: Nazi Germany was an abject failure due to being destroyed so quickly and so it wasn't an example of a successful socialism
As we see, there's no goalpost shifting. You're just evading the reality that in order to succeed ("work") you can't fail. So the question here is: are you capable of learning from past failures? Because so far it's looking like "no" is the answer
@Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @mooraycowhen
The goalpost then: Nazi Germany is an example of a successful socialism
Refutation then: Nazi Germany was an abject failure due to being destroyed so quickly and so it wasn't an example of a successful socialism
Refutation now: Nazi Germany was an abject failure due to being destroyed so quickly and so it wasn't an example of a successful socialism
As we see, there's no goalpost shifting. You're just evading the reality that in order to succeed ("work") you can't fail. So the question here is: are you capable of learning from past failures? Because so far it's looking like "no" is the answer
@Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @mooraycowhen
@NEETzsche @Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @mooraycowhen
The heuristics you're using are not linked to that which you are assessing. You're judging the success of the economic system based on the longevity of the country; and in this case, concluding that socialism didn't work because Germany lost the biggest war in history.
Other peoples heuristics, do assess the economic system; such as when people say German Socialism was successful because it pulled a depressed country out of poverty and into a productive fruitful society.
As I mentioned earlier, you want German Socialism to be a failure, so you'll use the heuristics that provide the conclusion you want. In this case, an economic system doesn't work because a war was lost not because the economic system failed.
The heuristics you're using are not linked to that which you are assessing. You're judging the success of the economic system based on the longevity of the country; and in this case, concluding that socialism didn't work because Germany lost the biggest war in history.
Other peoples heuristics, do assess the economic system; such as when people say German Socialism was successful because it pulled a depressed country out of poverty and into a productive fruitful society.
As I mentioned earlier, you want German Socialism to be a failure, so you'll use the heuristics that provide the conclusion you want. In this case, an economic system doesn't work because a war was lost not because the economic system failed.
@anon00110
The OP is listing something as an example of a successful socialism, which you're now defending. It didn't succeed. Therefore, it's not a valid example of a success. It doesn't matter why it didn't succeed for the purpose of his argument.
Do you understand? This is your final opportunity to save face.
@Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @mooraycowhen
The OP is listing something as an example of a successful socialism, which you're now defending. It didn't succeed. Therefore, it's not a valid example of a success. It doesn't matter why it didn't succeed for the purpose of his argument.
Do you understand? This is your final opportunity to save face.
@Arty24 @Leitis @Vsolid @mooraycowhen
@NEETzsche @anon00110 @Arty24 @Leitis @mooraycowhen Bro you've already been told that repeating shit over and over doesn't make it more true.
@Vsolid
You're the one repeating falsehoods, though, like "Nazi Germany was an example of socialism that worked."
@Arty24 @Leitis @anon00110 @mooraycowhen
You're the one repeating falsehoods, though, like "Nazi Germany was an example of socialism that worked."
@Arty24 @Leitis @anon00110 @mooraycowhen
@aceattorneybot @matrix This is an incredibly comfy way to read a hellthread
@sheetposter @aceattorneybot @matrix The only bot worth not muting
