💀
@book
>black people are actually Jew
Oh no... oh no no no... THOSE lunatics got to him?! The
Black Hebrew Israelites?! I thought it was just general, weirdo, conspiracy theory anti-semites. You know, poa.st users. I never suspected the other fuckers.
Imagine thinking hating jews was just a fringe thing weirdos did, and not what God does.
>Don't hate god [sic]
>Doesn't deserve it.
https://sleepy.cafe/notice/AONvvFl9bpoKruzMye
@hrast @book @Xenophon
>You can still respect someone if you don't like them
True. I don't see respect and the love/hate spectrum being connected. You can probably even like someone to some degree but not actually respect them.
>respect is fundamentally incompatible with hatred.
Don't know how true that holds, but can't think of an example off the top of my head either.
>hatred is a choice which affects you more than what you're hating
Not sure it's a choice. It is an emotion, and emotions are generally irrational. There is some argument to be made about recognizing your emotions, and trying to steer yourself away from the hatred, but that's gonna be an after the fact thing. As in, you're gonna decide to stop focusing on something you hate after you realize it's doing you harm. But it's gonna be more of a diverging your focus away. Unless something fundamentally changes in your relationship with the person you hate, when/if you focus your attention again on them, the hatred is likely to return.
>and a persistent denial of belief
You can't really "deny" a belief away, the way Christians think Atheists do. I can't choose to belief in a god, the same way an anti-semite can't choose to believe Jews did nothing wrong. You either believe in something because that's how the evidence fits together in your mind, or you don't. There's not much choice in the matter.
You could say I can choose to pretend to believe in a god, and go to church, and all that. But it's ultimately a farce, which I find insulting not only to myself, but to true believers too.
@hrast @book @Xenophon
>That's right, you can choose.
I think there might still be some misunderstanding here. Yes, beliefs shape actions. But the choice of pretending to believe is an action that would go contrary to the belief. I've heard arguments that such actions can in time themselves reshape the initial belief into one that would then further shape the initial action, but I never found such arguments convincing. And I find the entire idea to be an act of lying not only to myself, but to the people around me.
@hrast @book @Xenophon
I don't think this is even a matter of intent or not, I would still partake in a deceitful act, no matter what the goal is.
I also find it strange that spiritual or religious people are so convinced that non-spiritual/religious people are limiting ourselves in our perception or expression. I've had an unquenching curiosity of scientific matters for as long as I can remember, and longer than for how long I've had an understanding of god. And I constantly contemplate and imagine what else might be out there, what humanity might discover next, and so forth. Which is why science-fiction is still my favorite genre of entertainment.
And I've absolutely considered the question of spiritual and supernatural phenomenon too. It's just that in the end I have not been convinced by it. It is fun to go on a thought train, to try to come up with how ghosts, or some spiritual thing, might work. But I just end up empty handed at some point, as the idea slowly unravels itself.
>...are limiting ourselves in our perception or expression
And I am still firm in that belief, as we simply can't perceive higher-order beings, their existential keystones are based on different thinks than us. Atoms can't perceive that they build cells, cells can't perceive that they build a mammal, mammal can't perceive a higher-order being, but all of these things are aware that they're a part of something greater, be it through intent or natural mechanisms.
@hrast @book @Xenophon
But even if it's an attempt of honest discovery, it is still a deceitful act. A white lie might have the best, most sincerely loving meanings behind it, but it's still a lie. The same with this. Sure, I can try for a while to say, "ok, maybe the supernatural is real, what now" and act accordingly, but deep down I still know that I don't truly believe those words. The best I can do is acknowledge this from the start, and just take it as a role playing thing of sorts, to have fun for a while with the idea. Enjoy speculating about ghosts or something, but as a means of entertainment, not personal development. I simply can't do the latter, as long as I know in my heart that I simply don't believe myself when I say "maybe X supernatural thing is real".
>And I am still firm in that belief, as we simply can't perceive higher-order beings
I'm not sure "we can't perceive" is synonymous with "we'll never be able to perceive". Sure, I can't perceive 5th dimensional beings, but I do wonder and speculate about if/when/how humanity could discover the existence of... well things existing in a different dimensional state, or some kind of parallel universe and so on. One theory in particular I find interesting right now is the possibility that the universe is cyclical, constantly re-birthing itself anew. Kinda like a hindu reincarnation, but on a cosmic level.
>role playing thing of sorts
You're still thinking things from the perspective of Self, which moves you from being an observer into a active participant. This is not observing.
>Enjoy speculating about ghosts
The only person I've seen talking about ghosts in this thread is you.
>'m not sure "we can't perceive" is synonymous with "we'll never be able to perceive
It objectively, literally, actually, without a shadow of doubt in this case is, since 4th dimension is entirely beyond our comprehension, let alone 5th. The only thing you can do is come to a representation of it which isn't a real thing, just like how a 2D drawing will always be limited to its medium, even though it depicts a 3D object, it only depicts a representation of it, it isn't "it".
I'll type out this response with the assumption that "being connected" referred to respect that is mentioned in your next sentence.
Love/hate spectrum isn't directly connected to respect, but they are mutually exclusive emotions which have a varying difficulty level of being manipulated which is why they were mentioned right next to each other, as to love something you need to care about it greatly in a self-sacrificial way which requires way more involvement than just hating.
>Don't know how true that holds, but can't think of an example off the top of my head either.
Non-trivial discussion of hate requires non-trivial understanding of it, it isn't enough to just use it as a word. Hatred as a scientific concept is currently perceived to take root in the judgement neurological circuit and it consists of three parts.
Negation of intimacy: Negation of intimacy in hate is characterized by repulsion and disgust
Passion: Characterized as intensity of anger or fear in response to its target
Commitment: Characterized by cognitions of devaluation and diminution through contempt for the target
In this context respect is fundamentally incompatible with the concept of hatred, as by being repulsed by your target and devaluating it you give no room for respect. Respect is a positive feeling toward the target that they're of value, which is absolutely not the case when you're hating as you decrease that said value through denying them.
>Not sure it's a choice. It is an emotion, and emotions are generally irrational. There is some argument to be made about recognizing your emotions, and trying to steer yourself away from the hatred, but that's gonna be an after the fact thing
Emotions are generally rational too as they respond to your perception or understanding of the situation it involves
>Unless something fundamentally changes in your relationship with the person you hate, when/if you focus your attention again on them, the hatred is likely to return.
And your cognition and perception is the bedrock against which all the changes are weighted against. So rather than emotions being irrational, it might be that it's your perception instead, as emotions are responses to your wants, goals and drives. Sure, you can't absolutely manipulate your emotions, but that isn't the objective here, it's increased awareness as emotions are aiding element, not an end-goal in itself (unless that's exactly what you want)
>You can't really "deny" a belief away, the way Christians think Atheists do
I don't come from a christian but from a spiritual perspective. By denying the existence of spirit and higher-order being(s) you doom yourself to material, you think your eyes see everything yet there's an entire world of colours you're blind to, you think you hear but there are entire worlds of hidden songs and frequencies to which you'll be deaf to, you think that you're able to understand well but even the behaviours of animals are an enigma to you. By limiting yourself to material your life is marked misery or futility, depending on the richness of your life. You deny yourself an entire dimension of self-expression and reduce your body into becoming a flesh automaton that is animated by chemicals and neurotransmitters.
>You could say I can choose to pretend to believe in a god, and go to church, and all that. But it's ultimately a farce, which I find insulting not only to myself, but to true believers too.
That's right, you can choose. If you see it as an insult that's a perception thing. By the end of the days your beliefs shape you and your actions, and I believe it's a healthy thing to shape yourself into something that isn't defined by the transient nature of things.