>Start piracy streaming site
>Encode everything as MPEG-5 baseline
@j this is a joke that @j would probably like, since he knows a lot about video encoding.

i don't understand it. i'm not @j
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@Nepiant @j
Well, apparently MPEG-5 is actually a new(ish) video codec standard, but it hasn't been used anywhere so far, and there's probably no real plan for anyone to use it anytime soon.
So the joke might be that he's encoding stuff in a codec that you might not even be able to play back.

Another part of the joke might be related to the "baseline" part. A description from the only encoder that might exist so far:
"The "Baseline profile" contains only technologies that are older than 20 years or otherwise freely available for use in the standard".
This makes it sound like baseline doesn't actually feature anything unique to MPEG5, and other more mainstream codecs could perform the same thing as MPEG5 baseline.
So in other words, he'd be encoding in an obscure codec, but doing it in a way where he won't even gain any benefit from it. It would be like a technological oxymoron, if I understood this correctly.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essentia
github.com/mpeg5/xeve

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@alyx @j halfway through reading your response i was planning on accusing you of using ai to generate it, but as i kept reading i realized that your response was definitely too nuanced for that.

good response! thank you.
@alyx @j i'm so used to people just not caring about explaining something to someone and giving very short responses at best, "you should kill yourself" at worst.

@Nepiant @j
I know the feeling. Which is why I sometimes try to lead by example. Can't say I've been too successful in changing how others interact though.

@Nepiant @j
So is that where the world is right now? If a response is too long, it must be AI? Humanity is doomed.
Glad it helped though.

@alyx @Nepiant MPEG-5 baseline also avoids a lot of the issues of AV1
@j @alyx @Nepiant i still wonder if av1 would be fine if you used a neural encoder. just train it to predict the optimal filter stack directly.

this was done in a more limited way for a chinese codec and it does work
@icedquinn @alyx @Nepiant Eh one of the biggest issues with AV1 is that it doesn't work well as an archival codec. It's also not great at high bitrates. It's really purpose built to be a streaming codec and not much else.
@j @alyx @Nepiant the AOM image encoder is capable of doing a very good job at color preservation. It's just slow. It could be less slow with neural heuristics instead of brute forcing the encodings. :cirno_shrug:
@alyx @Nepiant @j i was playing around with EVC a few months ago. the thing is that EVC baseline actually just kinda suggs.
@RedTechEngineer @alyx @Nepiant from my testing EVC baseline is about on par with HEVC main.

EVC Main is pretty much on par with AV1 main and VVC main.

I also tested MPEG-5 Part 2 (LCEVC) with AVC, HEVC, and EVC baseline.

AVC+LCEVC performed about as well as HEVC main and EVC baseline
HEVC+LCEVC performed about halfway between HEVC and AV1/VVC/EVC Main
EVC+LCEVC performed about the same as HEVC+LCEVC but tended to consistently beat it by 3%-5%

LCEVC is really interesting to play around with. It's a pretty novel concept but it actually works pretty well.
@mischievoustomato @Nepiant @alyx @j im retarded i had something else going on my computer, sorry. on a single thread I'm getting about 1 frame/sec on 1080p with the slow preset
@mischievoustomato @RedTechEngineer @alyx @Nepiant Not something I tested because not all encoders are optimized equally.

However I can tell you that svt-av1 (v2.3.0) preset 6 encodes FHD Blu-Ray content at about the same speed as x264 present slow but it outperforms every x265 preset when it comes to image quality@bitrate

Actually svt-av1 encodes way faster than x265 and is way more efficient too.

However I'm more interested in comparing codecs rather than encoders.
@j @alyx @Nepiant my own testing does not reflect this. EVC on slow preset loses to libaom on -cpu-used 8. not only did AV1 encode faster, it also got better quality at a lower filesize despite the same bitrate given. i didn't get into the weeds of the advanced encoding options, but if i did I'd imagine AV1 would still win.
@RedTechEngineer @alyx @Nepiant People still use libaom for video? Even the Alliance for Open Media dropped that encoder. Everyone uses the Intel one. It doesn't give as good of compassion but it's actually usable in production.

If you need a more flexible encoder then look at rav1e
You'll want to use something like Av1an with it though unless you're running several encoding jobs simultaneously.

AV1 is an impressive codec and svt-av1 is a really impressive encoder but AV1 isn't royalty free and has even more issues than VP9 in that department.

MPEG-5 baseline is actually Royalty-Free while the main profile gives better compression but is patent encumbered. Exactly the same way it is with JPEG.
@j @alyx @Nepiant
> People still use libaom for video?
I like the best quality using the least bits. Shrimple as.
@RedTechEngineer @alyx @Nepiant if that's all that matters to you then use VVenC with the slower preset (veryslow tends to just be more complex and slightly lower quality)
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