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@tutle @crunklord420
>eyes are white
Also classical sign of blindness. :blobshrug:

I have trouble thinking of aliens as animals. For me the defining feature of animals would be non-sentience, but if there are intelligent aliens out there, then they'd be something different from Earth animals.

@thestrongest
Don't tell me he's actually gonna blend it in the middle of... oh he did... oh...
I didn't know that being unnecessarily rude = being based.. but ok. Don't get me wrong, it takes balls of steel to do something like that, but he's still a jerk. :peepoShrug:

It's one of those things for which Igel would call me autistic. And who knows, maybe that's true. Doesn't change the fact that I'm still enjoying myself in all that silliness.

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I don't know why, but I find enjoyment in taking troll comments seriously and then arguing from there. There's something interesting for me in partaking in the absurd as if it was real.

@tutle @crunklord420
The eyes?!... ah yes... I forgot, if it's not 100% photo-realistic, it's not "human". Silly me.

P.S. I think you made a false dichotomy between human and animal. She could be an alien too.

@tutle @crunklord420
I mean... you can disagree, but you're still wrong. I know she ain't real, but she's not an animal either. So doesn't qualify as a fursona. Not much more to say.

econ pol, uspol 

@wizzwizz4
>You're using words differently to how economists do
>links to wiki
Yes, because wiki = economists.
Let me know when you actually study the field.

>Fedi instances *do not extract value from your attention*
Are you sure about that? You've never seen admins receive donations? You've never seen people advertise on websites? Again, you are very limited in your understanding of things, and even your imagination is very limited. Even Twitter and Facebook didn't "extract value" for the longest time. They waited until they gathered a lot of users, got them personally invested in those accounts they made, and then flooded those platforms with ads. Maybe you need to think about things in the long term more, and not the immediate short term.

>you are not paying with it
Of course you are. Your attention is directly linked to your personal time. And time is absolutely the most priced possession you have. And you're wasting it here, with me, because I've successfully taken hold of your attention. Are you really gonna stay there and say you're not paying the price of wasting time?

>“Outsourced meat” decisions don't relate to wages: import tax.
1) Of course it does. Any increase in one cost results in attempts to decrease other costs. If wages are forcefully increased, and they can't find a way around it, the first thing the company will do is try to decrease every other cost. You're very gullible if you think companies will actually take the hit in their profit. If anything, they're likely to be so successful in finding cost-cutting methods, that they'll make more profit.
2) So the only reason so many American companies are doing their stuff in China and India is because there's absolutely no import tax whatsoever? Or is it maybe that sometimes import tax is pennies compared to the benefits of leaving US. Besides, historically, the same people in US that advocate for minimum wage increase are also the ones against increasing these import taxes. So good luck with that.

>Can you use your magical choice-finding powers to help my friends, please?
I swear you find the weirdest websites to link to. Sure, let's talk about made up hypotheticals about countries neither of us know anything about. I'm sure that's gonna be such a fruitful endeavor.
In case it wasn't clear, that was sarcasm. No, I'm not gonna pursue this, because there's no point. Even if I were to do weeks of research into Ethiopia to find actual solutions, you'd just do nothing more than move the goal post over and over again, and make up other hypotheticals.

At this point, all I can say is, go fuck yourself, because I don't think you have a honest bone in your body.

What I've learned today:
Don't be an American cuck that pays with credit cards!
Be the East European chad that pays with debit cards!

@crunklord420
Can't tell if this is meant as an insult for trans-men or just regular cucks.

econ pol, uspol 

@wizzwizz4
You have a very poor and limited understanding of markets my friend. Before you can even talk about "free markets" you need to talk about "markets". And a market is any place where there's a meeting between supply and demand. I, as a user, have a demand for communicating with others. Fedi instances offer a supply of services that can meet my demand. Hence fedi is a market. As for the free part, not all markets deal with money as their "price". As people are beginning to learn, when it comes to the internet, we mainly pay with our attention. And I am in fact free to pay this "price" to any other instance if the current one displeases me.

I don't know who taught you economics, or maybe you didn't study any at all, but Wikipedia is a poor source for any topic, but especially for something as fundamental. It's not gonna teach you to understand the absolute basics of it, so you're able to see the actions of supply and demand in every aspect of life. It's gonna partially teach you about the legal markets of goods and services you get with money. It's not gonna make you understand markets in their abstract sense.

>If you've always had a choice, whoop de doo to you
Everyone always has choices. You're either too stupid, too stubborn, or too lazy to see them, and prefer to put the responsibility on someone else. And I can't believe I'm going into GOP talking points, but fricking take responsibility for your own life.

>Some people's choice is between negative cash flow or *going insane*.
That's some very interesting imagination you've got there. I should make a note of it, if Americans don't live in constant debt, there's a risk of insanity, so credit cards are like their anti-psychotic medication.
Ok, I know that's probably not what you meant, and maybe you mean they need drugs for their mental health. But you expressed that very poorly. And if the drugs are expensive enough to where your pay check is no longer enough to cover them, switching to the credit card system of doing things is not a solution. The solution is finding a way to increase your cash flow or decrease your expenses. It's not even a good temporary fix, which would be borrowing a little money to cover the difference from friends/family/coworkers etc. Credit cards are the most horrible choice to make in such a situation, because it teaches you to think it's normal to be in constant debt.

>By “those things” I meant re the bad effects paragraph
Oh.. lol... you're still wrong my friend.
This is are the effects of minimum wage increase you can expect in the fast food sector.
1) you'll still see people getting fired, and the rest being forced into doing more work. The only reason it's not quite at the same degree, is because they're already worked very hard. But don't worry, fast-food places will find a way to work people even harder for that double salary, even if it kills them (the workers I mean).
2) you'll see human jobs replaced with automated systems, robots, etc. (heck, you're already starting to see this just as a response for the possibility of mandated minimum wage). And for every 5 robots that wipe the floor daily, you'll have a employee, that among a limitless number of demeaning duties, will also be responsible to check for any corners the robots could have missed.
3) factories that produce the sub-components of your fast food meals will move abroad. Those tasty hamburger meat? You'll have cow farms in China, butchered in China, meat prepared and shaped into hamburgers in China, frozen, transported to the good ol' USA, cooked in oil imported from China in your local McDonalds. The same goes for every component. Enjoy the same crappy taste!

@Eyoson@neckbeard.xyz
It's strange that the fish & bowl example feels a lot more intuitive and immediately makes you think the weight would be the sum of the two. The examples are basically identical, the fish does "fly" in the water as far as it's concerned. But we have this weird impression of air, as if it doesn't exist, when we should think of it as any other fluid.

@tusooa
>However, I hold that the side-effects do not overweigh the benefit to their mental health
Here's the thing: I'm not convinced of the purported benefits on mental health. The suicide rate is still off the charts post transition too. And the arguments that it's due to societal acceptance doesn't hold water in my view, because:
1) trans acceptance has increased A LOT in recent years.
2) atheists have had societal acceptance problems in America for decades. Even now I hear stories of people being more afraid to come out as atheist to their family than as gay. And yet, suicide rates within the Atheist community are some of the lowest, while "happiness" is generally measured as some of the highest of any demographic. So I don't buy that lack of acceptance is the main culprit for transgender suicides post-op. There is something else there that hasn't been investigated enough, and which isn't solved by current transition therapy.

>I personally know a number of trans people who regretted not having started hrt earlier.
And I've heard trans people say the exact opposite. :blobshrug:

>which one of the following is better *for those non-adults who are transgender*?
The reality is: in best case scenario we can say we legitimately don't know. Some people think they know, but they don't.

And there's still a false assumption being made here: that every child that experiences gender dysphoria, and doesn't take any medication, ends up still experiencing it as an adult, and taking HRT then. The reality is, there are studies out there that give numbers up to 80% of children that experience gender dysphoria before puberty, grow out of it after puberty.

Considering this and the fact that the children themselves couldn't even consent to any of the medication involved anyway, option 2 simply is not in any way a better option as it stands.
IF in the future we develop much better ways of diagnosing gender dysphoria (ones that are based on actual objective standards, like some kind of brain scan or something, instead of subjective feelings and statements made by the patient), IF we are able to differentiate between the children who keep being dysphoric in adulthood and those who don't, IF we can vastly improve the medical treatments used and actually ensure their safety, and IF we can solve the consent problem, then we can come back and reanalyze option 2.

@djsumdog @sex@neckbeard.xyz
As they say, history is written by the victors. I honestly don't know how future generations will view this, and I'm afraid to try to make a prediction. All I know is how I view this phenomenon currently. And I don't like it.

econ pol, uspol 

@wizzwizz4
You're a complete moron aren't you.
>Show me a free market.
Even the fediverse itself is a free market. You don't like instance X, you make an account on instance Y. Or heck, you're even free to make an account on Twitter.

>There are people born into debt, who live with no option to escape debt, who die in debt, as did their parents
Again, to me all this complaining just sounds like people choosing to live in debt and regretting their choice afterwards. I gave you and example of this already. And I'll give another soon. But if you're not gonna bring anything substantial to the table, I don't see a point in going further into this topic.

>If leaving your job means you don't pay the rent
And here's where I want to give that second example. Paying rent is not something we do for our entire lives. Over here, as soon as a couple gets married, they get a loan to buy an apartment, and instead of paying rent, that money goes to paying the loan instead. In more extreme cases, young couples choose to live with their parents for a while to save up money so they can do this. There's always a choice. Only Americans seem to be stuck in this idea that the only way to go is renting for their entire life.

>There is an impact, but the job market does not behave as a free market
1) Yes it is a free market. You just don't want to admit it, because it ruins your socialist dreams.
2) I love how you claim my argument is wrong, but then admit the impact exists. Which is it then?

>There are sectors (e.g. fast food) where those things can't be done; what impact there?
Of course they can be done. What are you even talking about? People leave McDonalds for other places all the time. Sometimes they leave for Burger King, other times to work as a school janitor, and maybe sometimes they finish a school and get a big-time manager job. It doesn't even matter at all which it is. The important bit is that if McDonads suddenly isn't in a position where it knows for sure it can hire some other dumb fuck in their place, then they'll start panicking and try to lower the rate at which employees leave. But this won't happen if you continue to bring in massive amounts of low skilled workers into the country.

@sex@neckbeard.xyz
>Halting sex hormone production, isn't harmful aside from temporarily stalling sexually development
And that's where you've been misinformed. Puberty blockers weren't designed to be used the way they are being used on trans-kids. They were designed to postpone puberty for a small duration of time, not the entire length of it. And they were designed for children that had some kind of imbalance that made them produce too much hormone or too soon, to help fix the imbalance, not completely eliminate hormones off the table. Their safety for transition therapy hasn't been proven in any way, and we're still some time of before we'll start seeing enough studies on the effects on the currently affected children to know for sure.

But thing is, it's hard to see how they wouldn't have negative side effects, especially on one's mental health. When a child is most sensitive about things like how they look or sex, you're gonna condemn them to look like a weird androgynous big child, instead of developing either as a male or female? God only knows how much ostracization one could get.

As for the biological part, hormones play such a big part in how our entire body develop, not just the outside looks, but bone structure and all that. Again, we know basically nothing about what the consequences will be. One thing we do know already though, males that did it, and didn't fully develop between their legs, found out later on that they couldn't get bottom surgery, because the doctors didn't have enough material to work with.

>So that their body isn't developed in either direction, until they grow up further, and can make a more informed choice.
The problem I have with this, is that you're affecting so much the biological and mental development of the person, that I'm not sure if they would actually make an informed choice. Emphasis on informed. If you didn't get to experience any kind of male puberty, how can you be sure that it would have been wrong for you? When the most important years of your development have been a constant push for you to be a girl, with no real experience of physically being a man, where exactly is the informed part of your choice? To me it sounds more like a breeding ground for manipulation and brainwashing. And you might want to look into the statistics of just how many children that express some kind of gender dysphoria grow out of it once they go through puberty. To save you the hassle, it's somewhere around 80% IIRC.

@tusooa
The best I can advice you is to look up medical ethics for yourself. I'll just point this out: when you develop new drugs or treatments, human beings are the last thing you test them on, children being the even lower on the list than adult humans. Last I checked, we haven't exactly been swimming in transgender mice or chimps.
What it's being done with "trans" kids, is using drugs in ways that they weren't designed for (especially in case of hormone blockers) or that already have proven harmful side-effects in adults (the case of hormone replacement therapy), before proper testing was done, and only afterwards have studies started to appear, with the trans-kids as the test subjects.

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Mainly gaming/nerd instance for people who value free speech. Everyone is welcome.