"nooo you cant say the holocaust was fake!!!! thats horrible, there are thousands of images proving that nazis were murdering jews and gays!!!!"
"lmao the holodomer was faked and all the images aren't real"

"nooo you cany say the holodomer was fake!!!! thats horrible, there are thousands of images proving that the ukrainians were being overworked and starved!!!"
"lmao the holocaust was faked and all the images aren't real"

@Mysha
>there are thousands of images proving that the ukrainians were being overworked and starved
Post, that's all I'm asking

@Spag @Mysha Does anyone at all deny the fact he: increased their quotas during a draught, punished anyone for having grain for themselves, shot people that tried to leave, had massive grain reserves so had no reason for the quotas and could easily have let them all live?

I don't think the pictures are really the important evidence here. Pictures in general are just shitty evidence. We have pictures of Bigfoot

The "debate" around it is whether this counts as deliberate killing (it does)

@applejack @Mysha
>increased their quotas during a draught
>punished anyone for having grain for themselves
>shot people that tried to leave
>had massive grain reserves so had no reason for the quotas and could easily have let them all live

Hearsay without sources until you provide them, or are you just trusting mainstream media on this?

@Spag @Mysha

>According to Natalya Naumenko, collectivization in the Soviet Union and lack of favored industries were primary contributors to famine mortality (52% of excess deaths), and some evidence shows there was discrimination against ethnic Ukrainians and Germans.[60] Lewis H. Siegelbaum, Professor of History at Michigan State University, states that Ukraine was hit particularly hard by grain quotas which were set at levels which most farms could not produce. The 1933 harvest was poor, coupled with the extremely high quota level, which led to starvation conditions. The shortages were blamed on kulak sabotage, and authorities distributed what supplies were available only in the urban areas.[citation needed] According to a Centre for Economic Policy Research paper published in 2021 by Andrei Markevich, Natalya Naumenko, and Nancy Qian, regions with higher Ukrainian population shares were struck harder with centrally planned policies corresponding to famine, and Ukrainian populated areas were given lower amounts of tractors which were correlated to a reduction in famine mortality, ultimately concluding that 92% of famine deaths in Ukraine alone along with 77% of famine deaths in Ukraine, Russia, and Belarus combined can be explained by systematic bias against Ukrainians

>Between January and mid-April 1933, a factor contributing to a surge of deaths within certain region of Ukraine during the period was the relentless search for alleged hidden grain by the confiscation of all food stuffs from certain households, which Stalin implicitly approved of through a telegram he sent on the 1 January 1933 to the Ukrainian government reminding Ukrainian farmers of the severe penalties for not surrendering grain they may be hiding

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

>At the time of the Holodomor, over one-third of the villages in Ukraine were put on "blacklists" for failing to meet grain quotas. Blacklisted villages were encircled by troops and residents were blockaded from leaving or receiving any supplies; it was essentially a collective death sentence.

>While Ukrainians were dying, the Soviet state extracted 4.27 million tons of grain from Ukraine in 1932, enough to feed at least 12 million people for an entire year. Soviet records show that in January of 1933, there were enough grain reserves in the USSR to feed well over 10 million people. The government could have organized famine relief and could have accepted help from outside of the USSR. Moscow rejected foreign aid and denounced those who offered it, instead exporting Ukraine's grain and other foodstuffs abroad for cash.

https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-genocide-education/resource-guides/holodomor

@Spag @Mysha Just that bit about the soviets' own records is enough to prove it was deliberate murder