@p @matrix

Ancom is an oxymoron.

@Neko_Mizu @matrix That's my belief. It requires people to sign off on so many things that it can't exist without enforcement from an authoritarian power structure of some sort, whether or not they've decided to call that structure a government.

@p@freespeechextremist.com @Neko_Mizu@pawoo.net @matrix@gameliberty.club Anarchism is about dismantling the state, not eradicating the concept of government.

@Agni @p @matrix

Anarchism = no rulers

@Neko_Mizu@pawoo.net @p@freespeechextremist.com @matrix@gameliberty.club No, anarchism = no state.

@Agni @matrix @Neko_Mizu Anarchism = a lot of arguing about how to define "anarchism". It's a tradition as old as anarchism itself.

@p@freespeechextremist.com @matrix@gameliberty.club @Neko_Mizu@pawoo.net

People have different ideas about the kind of society they'd ideally like to live in

Big mood fam.

@Agni @matrix @Neko_Mizu Different ideas are interesting, but definitions of a word are less so. "No archons" is a pretty reasonable definition.

"You can call it a banana." is probably one of the best quotes of all time from one of the worst politicians of recent years. The society and the definition don't need to line up because what you call it doesn't matter. (I'm sure had some words about this but I don't wanna go digging at the moment and I like "You can call it a banana" anyway.)

(Side note: your new avatar is excellent.)

@p@freespeechextremist.com @matrix@gameliberty.club @Neko_Mizu@pawoo.net Oh why thank you, I'm having a bit of trouble sourcing it actually.

@Agni @matrix @Neko_Mizu Likewise; tineye had one result, an anime fanfiction site where someone was using a similar one but with a different pallet.
180.jpg

@p@freespeechextremist.com @matrix@gameliberty.club @Neko_Mizu@pawoo.net Weird, here's the full sized image I grabbed.

@p @Agni @Neko_Mizu @matrix

Boring. Why quote Stirner when you can quote Jared Loughner. :^) "What is government if words have no meaning?"

Crazy or not (probably not) he discovered the biggest problem to having any kind of communication towards any kind of solution of intractable problems. Communication is nearly impossible because people use words that don't mean what we've convinced ourselves they mean. E.g., "Help" means "management of another's affairs." Help that doesn't involve getting deeply involved in another's personal business is a phantom idea that can hardly be expressed in English at this point. "Labor" means "activity that benefits another." The concept of work that benefits the self is another near-phantom idea. And both ideas are considered a neo-vice should anyone have to admit they exist.

The solution is threefold. You have to recognize what a word like "anarchy" was supposed to mean, how we've convince ourselves it means something else and what that is, and then the meaning we will the word to have within a hostile Clown World (a sort of word-alchemy and casting of spells (really anti-spells, since theirs were the original spells)).

@jack @Agni @Neko_Mizu @matrix Well, I was actually quoting John McCain, who was talking about something completely unrelated and this line was lampooned but I actually like it. Or Lincoln asking how many legs a sheep has if we call the tail a leg, and when hearing "Five", he says it's four, because a tail's not a leg even if we call it one. But if "You can call it a banana" wasn't the best ever, it'd probably be better to quote Tom Stoppard or Lewis Carroll.

Or maybe Wittgenstein. You might be interested in how we teach computers to "understand" language, the answer being that we contrive a lot of ways for the computer to fail to understand language in the sense that we think we understand it, because we basically give them a Wittgenstein-style idea of words, and it's likely that this is how we understand words, I think.

You can take, for example, word2vec, which is a great way to get computers to understand words, but it uses a monumentally stupid algorithm (which I'm going to try to avoid describing in technical terms, so as not to obscure the idea): words that appear near each other in sentences are considered to be related, and a word is roughly synonymous if it appears in the same contexts as another word. The big demo was to ask the sufficiently trained model what you get if you take a king, subtract "male" and add "female", and it gave "queen". Surprising grasp of semantics for something that any first-year computer science student could implement and understand.

Also of interest: http://rtw.ml.cmu.edu/rtw/

> words that don't mean what we've convinced ourselves they mean

Maybe they don't "mean" anything. Intrinsic meaning for words is (philosophically) dead, I think.

@p @Agni @Neko_Mizu @matrix If you're going to cite smug politicians waxing poetic on their lying abilities, I would go with "depends on what the meaning of "is" is" Clinton. Regardless, it's a Jewish idea that words have no intrinsic meaning, just as they've attempted to strip humanity from having any meaning in and of itself, in terms of tribe, culture, unalterable history, belief, etc., they've attempted to strip language from having an inherent meaning, such that it too can be manipulated to serve their varying needs, environments and contexts. When every word has a fixed, known, and unalterable meaning, the sorts of oppressions we currently endure can't be covered up. Timeless words are simple. The most profound truths are expressed in simple language. The more complexities and alterations, the more fabricated and false the whole house of cards becomes.

@Agni @p @Neko_Mizu But what's the point of the government without the state?

@matrix@gameliberty.club @p@freespeechextremist.com @Neko_Mizu@pawoo.net Government is nothing more than the way a society organizes itself. "The" government is a misnomer; when we say "the government" what we mean is "the state." It's not accident that we've come to think of one as inextricably bound up with the other.

@p @matrix They're egalitarian but not egalitarian enough to think they should have to do a share of the work.

@p @matrix workers of the world unite

but don't work

@dwaltiz @matrix