@matrix Its almost like living in a society that treats you unfairly, makes it harder to be financially successful, and causes you to be likely to be born into a life of poverty might possibly influence a persons perpencity towards crime.... who wulda thunk.

@freemo While that certainly plays a role, the difference is so big and not seen among other poor people that it isn't a good explanation.
The biggest contributor is in my opinion fatherlessness.

@matrix @freemo it’s high testosterone & low impulse control. It’s literally genetic. It’s in their nature & it can not be helped by anything. R/K strategy somewhat helps to understand racial differences.
@JoonBug @matrix @freemo
>High testosterone
Really because a lot of white people have that and aren't violent. Testosterone doesn't make you impulsive and violent.
@Myron_Gaines @freemo @matrix well of course not. But combined with low impulse control, low IQ, and other genetic/behavioral factors, you get violent negroids.

I didn’t say or imply that it’s just the high testosterone.
@Myron_Gaines @freemo @matrix from pubmed- “ Mean testosterone levels in blacks were 19% higher than in whites, and free testosterone levels were 21% higher. Both these differences were statistically significant. Adjustment by analysis of covariance for time of sampling, age, weight, alcohol use, cigarette smoking, and use of prescription drugs somewhat reduced the differences. After these adjustments were made, blacks had a 15% higher testosterone level and a 13% higher free testosterone level.”

@matrix The thing it **is** seen among other poor people, and the correlation is actually rather high unlike what you suggest. It is just that it is only one part of a problem that includes many factors (And yes fatherlessness may be one of them). Clearly there is more than just the fact that they are poor that contributes to the issue, but that i part of it.

@freemo @matrix "living in a society that treats you unfairly"

If you're talking about black people, you're right, but not in the way you intended: Beyond nonstop Affirmative Action and racial quotas to ensure that blacks have to put in far less effort than any other group to get into a good college or get a good job, they're actually less likely than White people to be shot by the police while unarmed, when you control for just how much more violent crime they commit.

Being black in America is Easy Mode, it's just that many blacks are so dysfunctional that they still manage to screw up their lives despite society bending over backwards to accommodate them.

@ChristiJunior

Life skills are generational. When you make people slaves and then try to reverse course on that the lack of education will be passed down generation after generation.

To claim that they systemically have it easier, which I'm not saying is true but even if we assume it is, doesnt really make your case at all. Having it "easy" isnt going to reset the centuries of oppression whose effects will continue to be passed down for some time.

@matrix

@freemo @ChristiJunior @matrix They objectively have it easier, and we are WAY too far removed from slavery for that to be an excuse, that can’t be taken seriously anymore.

@Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum

Its not about slavery. The overwhelming oppression of blacks lasted well beyond slavery. Even if you could argue direct racism is gone that isnt until very recent times at best (and you'd be wrong at even that).

@matrix @ChristiJunior

@freemo @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum @matrix "(and you'd be wrong at even that)"

Hol' up, you claimed that blacks were Failing because of the legacy of oppression, seeing how you couldn't actually provide a single example of actual, direct modern-day racial oppression/discrimination faced by blacks. The argument that blacks are Oppressed by the police is certainly bullshit. Meanwhile, there are countless ways modern-day blacks in the US enjoy preferential treatment, at the expense of White people (who do suffer constant ACTUAL, race-based discrimination).

@ChristiJunior

Nope, wrong on all points and not at all what I said.

I said that the legacy of oppression does have an effect, but I never said I could not provide any modern day examples of racism. I did however claim that racism is not reduced to rights, if I shoot you in the face simply because I hate black people, that is racism, and it is still racism even if that black person has all the same rights as me.

@matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum

@freemo @matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum "if I shoot you in the face simply because I hate black people, that is racism, and it is still racism even if that black person has all the same rights as me."

This seems like a strange point for you to make, seeing how White-on-black crime is absolutely dwarfed by the amount of black-on-White crime happening in the West.

@ChristiJunior

How so? 1) I never claimed blacks cant be or arent racist towards whites 2) not all race-on-other-race crime is automatically explicitly due to race and therefore a racist act.

If I shoot a black person in the face to steal his shoes then it isnt racism just because I'm white. If I do it simply because I hate back people then it is.

@matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum

@freemo @matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum "not all race-on-other-race crime is automatically explicitly due to race and therefore a racist act."

Sure, but whenever a White person commits a crime against a black person, the police and the media will obsessively search after evidence that this was racially motivated. Meanwhile, in the far more numerous instances where black people commit violent crime against White people, the racial aspect will be stubbornly ignored or even explained away. A White person could be murdered by a black man screaming "I hate White people!", and you'd get all sorts of "experts" trying to unpack his "true motives" and why they weren't actually related to race at all. Never mind that anti-White sentiment is very common among blacks, or that the current US culture is anti-White in general, and stoking black hatred towards White people in particular.

@ChristiJunior

The bias in the media to ignore racism towards whites and exagerate it or assume it when towards blacks is very real. I wont argue that.

That still doesnt contradict my underlying argument however. It just means the media, as usual, is so monumentally bias you cant use it to discern anything useful about the situation. You actually have to bother analyzing the data yourself. When I do that the fact remains that blacks are very much the target of racism (though not the only target) and that this effects a lot of the problem. Just because it is far less exaggerated than the media likes you to think doesnt suddenly mean it is non-existant either.

@matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum

@freemo @matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum "the fact remains that blacks are very much the target of racism (though not the only target) and that this effects a lot of the problem."

Yet you don't cite actual examples of current, on-going structural "racism" against blacks, never mind sufficient evidence to show that the effects of anti-black racism outweigh pro-black racism.

@ChristiJunior

"Yet you don't cite actual examples of current, on-going structural "racism" against blacks,"

Because I never claimed there was on-going structural racism towards blacks, so why would I need to demonstrate it.

In fact the only time i even used the word structural in this debate at all was to remind people that I didnt specify I was talking about structural racism and that I used the term "racism" without qualifiers intentionally so.

@matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum

@freemo @matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum "Because I never claimed there was on-going structural racism towards blacks, so why would I need to demonstrate it."

Thank you, I'll certainly hold you to that. So if you understand you right, your claim is that the effects of all-encompassing structural pro-black preferential treatment are somehow nullified and even rendered vastly insufficient by vague, undefined "social" racism? Some White, Asian and Hispanic people justifiable having low opinions of blacks in general means that blacks are effective Oppressed even today? This basically amounts to saying that random people on the Fediverse using the nigger word is more impactful than Affirmative Action or multi-billion dollar Diversity initiatives.

@ChristiJunior

Keep in mind just because I didnt explicitly state there is institutional/structural racism does not imply I am saying there is none. I simply made no assertions on that point either way. So yes, feel free to hold me to the fact that I did not express my opinion on that point.

"Thank you, I'll certainly hold you to that. So if you understand you right, your claim is that the effects of all-encompassing structural pro-black preferential treatment are somehow nullified and even rendered vastly insufficient by vague, undefined "social" racism? "

No you do not understand me correctly, no I did not say that (or at least did not intend that to be the interpretation). Affirmative action is not "nullified" by social racism at all, or any form of racism. Its very nature, and even more so how it is implemented, makes it ineffective, even if there were a lack of racism, at addressing the problems we face. Since it does not have a positive effect on the problem then there is nothing to "nullify" to begin with.

@matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum

@freemo @matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum "Since it does not have a positive effect on the problem then there is nothing to "nullify" to begin with."

Wait, so am I to take it that you oppose Affirmative Action and other forms of explicitly race-based preferential treatment for blacks?

@ChristiJunior

Yes, I oppose affirmative action and race-based preferential treatment. I also explicitly stated so earlier in the thread already. Read first before slinging mud maybe?

@matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum

@ChristiJunior All expectations of civilized conduct are structurally racist against blacks because they’re not a civilized race by default. Nigs gonna nog.

@freemo @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum @matrix

@NEETzsche

Muted due to adding nothing useful to the conversation, trolling, and being explicitly racist.

Not going to invest time reading posts from a person who adds no value and whose intention is to in fact subtract value from a conversation.

@matrix @ChristiJunior @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum

@NEETzsche @matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum @freemo No, but you see, that's all due to racism, because every single majority-black country has been Oppressed and Exploited. Just don't ask why those black countries were all so weak and backwards that other races were able to oppress and exploit them in the first place...
@NEETzsche @freemo @ChristiJunior @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum @matrix I wouldn’t necessarily call any of them ‘nice’ per se, but a few of them are stable to a degree that the present US is not.

One of my cousins and his wife are career military. Back in 2015, they got a 5-year assignment to Senegal, and lived there with their two children on a US state department compound in Dakar. He said the cost of living is way lower than the US, the weather 100x better, and since French is the official language and is taught in the schools there, his kids are now bilingual. They got transferred back stateside in 2020, but last year they put in to be transferred back to Senegal indefinitely. It really says something about how terminally bad the US is when my cousin would rather raise his family in Africa than here.

@ThreeOneThreeChris >but a few of them are stable to a degree that the present US is not.

This was my favorite part of this post. I believed it with zero fact checking or whatever.

@ChristiJunior @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum @freemo @matrix

@freemo even the depths of the Mariana trench aren't deep enough to express my profound disappointment in you.
@ChristiJunior @matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum

@freemo @ChristiJunior @matrix @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum

>If I shoot a black person in the face to steal his shoes then it isnt racism just because I'm white.

It's not because you are white because you are not white you are a nigger because only niggers shoot people over shoes.

@dew_the_dew

Welcome to mute for being indistinguishable from a 6 year old both intellectually and in terms of maturity.

Thanks for playing.

@matrix @ChristiJunior @Rudolf_von_Goldenbaum

@freemo @ChristiJunior @matrix
Thats weird so how did whites do it? Because whites were slaves long before blacks. The word slave literally is derived from an ethnicity of white people. Why hasnt haiti become a haven? Theyve been free for almost as long as america so what gives?
@freemo @ChristiJunior @matrix
You know what sounds more plausible and not retarded? Blacks had communities due to segregation and those communities got shredded when they started forcing diversity on everyone at the point of a gun.
@Boomerman @matrix @freemo Eastern Europe was under communist tyranny for almost 45 years in very recent history, yet Eastern European countries are still far better places to live than pretty much all African countries.

Speaking of Africa, funny how some of the best-run African countries (Rhodesia and Apartheid South Africa) were run by a White minority, and that things dramatically changed for the worse after the blacks started running those countries...
@ChristiJunior @freemo @matrix
I mean realistically speaking if this guy is right jews should be broke and blowing each other away over rap beefs and drug deals. weird how this group that has been oppressed for 2k years and was genocided less than century ago somehow keepsnproducing billionaires and shit.
@ChristiJunior @freemo @matrix so realistically speaking his oppression theory is bullshit or the holocaust is. I suppose he can choose which is true
@Boomerman @matrix @freemo Indeed - funny how Jews being oppressed lead to them becoming extremely overrepresented in all sorts of high-status sectors of society, while blacks being oppressed let to them leeching off of the government, smoking crack and committing obscene amounts of violent crime.
@ChristiJunior @freemo @matrix funny how that happens not only in america but all over the world and with all different kinds of government
@Boomerman @ChristiJunior @freemo @matrix Note that Maoism was way worse for the Chinese than anything blacks have had to go through since they landed in America. They still managed to develop their economy much faster than anywhere in Africa. The Japanese literally got nuked and were able to bounce back from that. It's pretty clear that oppression doesn't cause a lack of intelligence, a lack of intelligence just makes you easier to oppress.
@ArdanianRight @ChristiJunior @freemo @matrix
Lol africa had trains before china and its still all fucked up
@freemo @matrix Your argument is effectively unfalsifiable. We could be giving blacks preferential treatment for 500 years, and people like you would still be insisting that past Oppression is to blame for blacks being disproportionately stupid and violent, and that the answer is even more anti-racist Bullshit.

The better option is obviously accepting that some groups of people are just dumber and more violent than others, to end preferential treatment of the dysfunctional groups, and to no longer allow races that we know will be disproportionately dysfunctional to immigrate to the West. "Diversity" and Multiculturalism is already a disaster for the West, no reason to make the problem even worse.
@ChristiJunior @freemo @matrix

Blacks are descended from the leftover hominids that were too stupid to travel outward

@ChristiJunior

The thing about an argument being unfalsifiable is that it in no way implies it is any less true, it just means it hard to prove it is true.

That said I wouldn't say its unfalsifiable, but it is admittedly much harder to prove true than most things.

@matrix

@freemo @matrix It's pretty damn obvious that no amount of evidence would convince you that the bad outcomes for blacks are due to factors other than Oppression, because you're not willing to even entertain the notion that blacks are on average just naturally less intelligent than White people and most other racial groups.
@ChristiJunior @freemo @matrix ♪ No escaping your genes, we regress to racial means, and adoption studies blow blank slate BS to smithereens ♫

@MaceDindu

Because the UK and Canada do just as shitty a job addressing the problem as the USA does.

@matrix @ChristiJunior

@freemo @MaceDindu @matrix Of course, blacks are always being wronged, everybody is out to get them, surely the fault can't ever lie with the blacks...

@ChristiJunior

Never said that either. Just because there are plenty of external factors in no way implies there arent internal factors int he black communities which arent helping either.

@MaceDindu @matrix

@freemo @ChristiJunior @matrix yeah, but to the extent there are factors, they're different factors, with roughly similar outcomes. Why is London 13% black, and half the murders there are perpetrated by blacks? No history of slavery, different society, same outcome.

@MaceDindu

No history of slavery? Seriously, you think the UK didnt engage in slavery? Hate to break it to you but all of europe engaged in slavery of black people including during the time slaves were common in america, give or take a few decades.

@matrix @ChristiJunior

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