@matrix Its almost like living in a society that treats you unfairly, makes it harder to be financially successful, and causes you to be likely to be born into a life of poverty might possibly influence a persons perpencity towards crime.... who wulda thunk.
@freemo While that certainly plays a role, the difference is so big and not seen among other poor people that it isn't a good explanation.
The biggest contributor is in my opinion fatherlessness.
@matrix The thing it **is** seen among other poor people, and the correlation is actually rather high unlike what you suggest. It is just that it is only one part of a problem that includes many factors (And yes fatherlessness may be one of them). Clearly there is more than just the fact that they are poor that contributes to the issue, but that i part of it.
Life skills are generational. When you make people slaves and then try to reverse course on that the lack of education will be passed down generation after generation.
To claim that they systemically have it easier, which I'm not saying is true but even if we assume it is, doesnt really make your case at all. Having it "easy" isnt going to reset the centuries of oppression whose effects will continue to be passed down for some time.
Nope, wrong on all points and not at all what I said.
I said that the legacy of oppression does have an effect, but I never said I could not provide any modern day examples of racism. I did however claim that racism is not reduced to rights, if I shoot you in the face simply because I hate black people, that is racism, and it is still racism even if that black person has all the same rights as me.
How so? 1) I never claimed blacks cant be or arent racist towards whites 2) not all race-on-other-race crime is automatically explicitly due to race and therefore a racist act.
If I shoot a black person in the face to steal his shoes then it isnt racism just because I'm white. If I do it simply because I hate back people then it is.
The bias in the media to ignore racism towards whites and exagerate it or assume it when towards blacks is very real. I wont argue that.
That still doesnt contradict my underlying argument however. It just means the media, as usual, is so monumentally bias you cant use it to discern anything useful about the situation. You actually have to bother analyzing the data yourself. When I do that the fact remains that blacks are very much the target of racism (though not the only target) and that this effects a lot of the problem. Just because it is far less exaggerated than the media likes you to think doesnt suddenly mean it is non-existant either.
"Yet you don't cite actual examples of current, on-going structural "racism" against blacks,"
Because I never claimed there was on-going structural racism towards blacks, so why would I need to demonstrate it.
In fact the only time i even used the word structural in this debate at all was to remind people that I didnt specify I was talking about structural racism and that I used the term "racism" without qualifiers intentionally so.
Keep in mind just because I didnt explicitly state there is institutional/structural racism does not imply I am saying there is none. I simply made no assertions on that point either way. So yes, feel free to hold me to the fact that I did not express my opinion on that point.
"Thank you, I'll certainly hold you to that. So if you understand you right, your claim is that the effects of all-encompassing structural pro-black preferential treatment are somehow nullified and even rendered vastly insufficient by vague, undefined "social" racism? "
No you do not understand me correctly, no I did not say that (or at least did not intend that to be the interpretation). Affirmative action is not "nullified" by social racism at all, or any form of racism. Its very nature, and even more so how it is implemented, makes it ineffective, even if there were a lack of racism, at addressing the problems we face. Since it does not have a positive effect on the problem then there is nothing to "nullify" to begin with.
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