:gondola_head: 🌿 
I swear I just ate the chocolates that the old lady gave me and I'm sick the next day.
Reading the ingredients of the thing and of course it's seed oils and soy and lecithin and sugar.
@mangeurdenuage those aren't ingredients that should make you feel sick
@mangeurdenuage People ate seed oils, sugar and soy before the industrial revolution (technically lecithin too but not extracted).
I do agree though that people regularly complain about feeling like shit from food or getting hearthburn or "food poisoning", which is a problem you mostly avoid just by not eating shitty greasy overflavoured food, which they refuse to do.
But that's not because the food has seed oil in it. Not that I want to defend cheap chocolate that has barely seen cocoa from a distance.
Are you fine after eating bread etc? Cheap chocolate often has some gluten in it and a weak gluten alergy can make you just feel kinda shitty and sluggish without any specific symptoms
>People ate seed oils
Ok, which ones and in what quantities ?
>and soy
Which genetic group ? And in what quantities ?
>not because the food has seed oil in it.
The manufacturing process is also a problem.
>Are you fine after eating bread
If I make it myself, yes. If not I have stomach burn. Same for croissants and the like.
>and a weak gluten alergy can make you just feel kinda shitty and sluggish without any specific symptoms
Correct but that's often in the next hours and not a full day after. I say that but it does depend on the individual.
@mangeurdenuage
>Ok, which ones and in what quantities ?
southern regions primarily olive oil, northern ones mostly the same ones afaik. Definitely in lower quantity though.
>Which genetic group ? And in what quantities ?
I dunno which, but 0 in Europe and much lower quantity in Asia. They ate primarily rice, but rice is also a seed with oil in it though.
That is more of argument against over use of seed oil rather than seedoil itself.
>manufacturing
I did saw some argument that the chemicals used to extract the oil can stay in some small amounts in the oil, so that's a possibility.
>If I make it myself, yes. If not I have stomach burn.
Do you use baking powder? I assume not. My grandma's baking can give some people stomach burn and I've noticed it has a bitter metalic aftertaste, which is a sign of using too much baking powder. Could be you are sensitive to it.
Or maybe storebought has too much salt.
It's definitely not gluten allergy though if homemade bread is fine.
>southern regions primarily olive oil
That isn't a seed oil. Now explain how it's extracted and what fatty acids it is composed of.
>but rice is also a seed with oil in it though.
All plants/animal contains fatty acids. What are the proportion of fatty acids in rice ? Does these proportion change from different species of rice ? does soil, treatment etc.. change those values ?
My point is that it's inevitable and that's not the issue as the quantities of the fatty acids that would influence human health in a single grain or portion of rice/spinach/wheat etc... are so low that it doesn't matter.
What matters is when you go through hoops and loops of processing to extract and concentrate those fatty acids into a lump of oil that couldn't be possible with just pressing it by hand.
>I did saw some argument that the chemicals used to extract the oil can stay in some small amounts in the oil, so that's a possibility.
There are tons of methods, for seedoils the issue is that these methods are so intensive that they become rancid in the process and have to go through a deodorization process to be able to be sold.
Even sugar processing use various petro chemicals to be white for example.
>I assume not.
Exibit a.
>and I've noticed it has a bitter metalic aftertaste,
Your grandma is doing something wrong then.
>Or maybe storebought has too much salt.
Or maybe they add garbage in them, even in bread they add seedoils in it.
Just read the packaging, it's insane, in almost everything they add some.
@mangeurdenuage
>That isn't a seed oil. Now explain how it's extracted and what fatty acids it is composed of.
Oh right, vegetable oil =/= seed oil.
Olive oil has the least polyunsaturated fat, but the difference is pretty small compared with canola or sunflower.
Olive oil is cold pressed.
Rapeseed and sunflower oil was always heated, but was mostly used in medicine, cosmetics and for laps. Cooking not much. However gruel was quite a common dish, which is just any available seed boiled in water (or if possible, milk).
I forgot sesame oil though. That was quite common, even for consumption, in Asia and Mesopotamia. That was cold pressed too.
>couldn't be possible with just pressing it by hand
It would, it just would be super expensive therefore not used in large quantities.
Even then, unless you regularly eat mass produced baked foods, cheap chocolate, mayo or margarine the amount of seed oils you consume is not high. It's not poison that gets you sick just with few grams.
>Does these proportion change from different species of rice ? does soil, treatment etc.. change those values ?
Probably, but as you said it's not in quantities that matter.
>deodorization
Most of the chemicals used are harmless. Deodorization is literally just steam and while it is, as you say, to compensate the more intensive extraction process, the fact that it IS there kinda defeats your point as the refining process is so effective it strips away not just harmful compounds but also natural flavors or vitamins.
The only possible issue there could be the solvent not being properly recovered and staying in the oil.
>Your grandma is doing something wrong then.
I know. I stopped eating it a long time ago.
>maybe they add garbage in them
Possibly, bread should just be yeast, wheat, water and salt. But when, out of curiosity, I looked at bread in Walmart's online shop my euro brain couldn't believe how much extra nonsense was in it.
>vegetable oil =/= seed oil.
The difference is that the extraction of olive oil comes from the fruit of the tree and not from it's tiny seed.
>Olive oil has the least polyunsaturated fat,
Not exactly. See coconut fat.
>but the difference is pretty small compared with canola or sunflower.
See the types of fatty acids, see the consequences of ingesting rancid/fatty acids that went through oxidation*
>Olive oil is cold pressed.
Not exactly, it depends on label and regulations. Extra virgin olive oil is cold pressed in europe. Then there's "second cold press" which is "virgin olive oil".
Anything other than that isn't cold pressed and has to have the label "cold pressed" to know it's cold pressed.
>owever gruel was quite a common dish, which is just any available seed boiled in water (or if possible, milk).
Again are you repeating LLM prompt ?
Do you understand that in the end they didn't ingest of the quantities we do today ?
>That was quite common
To extract the amount we currently do it was impossible to do so cold pressed.
Maybe it was enough at the time for night lamps and the like.
>it just would be super expensive therefore not used in large quantities
Thus not cost effective, thus couldn't be use in large quantities as cold pressing can't give the same output as current mechanics/chemistry does.
>it's not in quantities that matter.
Because they're so insignificant that at worst from recent data it's at ~3% in very healthy people who never moved to post industrial diet. And not 15~20% and more like on most westerners.
>are harmless
lol, lmao even*
> Deodorization is literally just steam
Boiling under pressure at 250°C yes it's just steam. What happens to molecules when heat them for too long ? Can your body still process them as they were fresh ?
>the refining process is so effective it strips away not just harmful compounds
lol, lmao even*
>but also natural flavors or vitamins.
Again did you copy paste llm prompt ? Do you understand this is a negative ?
> my euro brain couldn't believe how much extra nonsense was in it.
Indeed.
*:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQmqVVmMB3k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb-VNW_WaVU
@mangeurdenuage
>LLM
no, I just don't bother with food science because majority of it has been junk and simple calories in calories out gets you 90% there
>consequences of ingesting rancid/fatty acids that went through oxidation
The evidence for that afaik has mostly been mechanistic and not replicated in humans.
>quantities we do today
I've said that in the previous reply. Sorry if it came off as I was claiming otherwise.
The issue with isolating seed oils as uniquely harmful is that during the period of increasing seed oil consumption, the consumption of everything has increased, the population has aged more and sedentary life style has become the default. So even if something is there it's effect is minor.
>Can your body still process them as they were fresh ?
If not they'll just get expelled, molecules that survive high temperatures usually don't bind easily.
>Do you understand this is a negative ?
yes, i know it sounds retarded, but the point I tried to make is that it's effective, not that it's ideal
>the consumption of everything has increased,
Oh yes I agree, but little of everything that we ingest is new, this, like sugar, is new.
>they'll just get expelled
Not really. But some do, but the body has a limit to what it can do in 24h.
I've reverted to ingredients only previous to that time and it's astounding what we actually inflict to our bodies.