>Talks about the benefits of self-hosting
>Hosts their code and design repositories on GitHub


Oh you thought that was bad? I also found out that their site is hosted on AWS. They might as well just sell their computers on Amazon.



Also, how the fuck do you even combine "securely store your data" and "AWS" in the same sentence!?
It's either "securely store your data", or "store your data on AWS", not both at the same time!

@ryo I don't know. What I want to know is why are they hosting it on AWS when they fucking sell servers.

I don't know how much it cost to actually maintain a server for a storefront like this, but honestly it doesn't seem surprising because they are slow to restock. I actually wanted to buy a laptop from them a couple years back because I think it would be better to use a computer that was actually built for Linux, but ALL of their laptops were out of stock, but that might have been due to a chip shortage from the scamdemic.

My guess is rather that the whole chip shortage thing was more related to the NFT hype that made people buy up graphics cards like a motherfucker, because:
1. We didn't have a chip shortage over here, at least not from what I could see in neither physical nor online stores.
2. There was a sudden abundance of chips as soon as NFTs were considered no longer popular.

As for maintaining a server for a storefront, it doesn't require much, you can host one on a low spec server pretty easily even.
If anything, AWS would be the more expensive option, due to their billing scheme (I haven't worked with it as much to know for sure, but I know I've been pointing and laughing a lot at people who fell for the AWS meme, only to then get impossibly high invoices to pay, and then they cope whenever I say "I told you so!").

>My guess is rather that the whole chip shortage thing was more related to the NFT hype

It was probably both, given that a lot of chips are manufactured in China and other East Asian countries, and yeah there was the NFT hype going on at the time. I remember the shortage being part of the reason why there weren't that many Xbox Series X|S and PS5 consoles at launch.

Smaller manufacturers like System76 were probably the most affected. I just ended up biting the bullet and buying a mid-range gaming laptop at Best Buy and installing Mint on it, as usual. Surprisingly, the store clerk that helped me make my purchase was also a Linux user who understood my situation.

And before you tell me that I should just stick with older computers, I was still in college at the time, and I had to deal with using bloated software for some classes. There were still some classes that were online only so I had to use Zoom (thankfully there is a web-client).

Anyway, I would like my next laptop to be one of these Linux laptops. Framework laptops also seem like a cool option because they are designed to be repairable and long-lasting, and if you know anything about newer computers, especially laptops, you are lucky if yours lasts more than 2-3 years without some sort of hardware failure. Yes, I get the whole "just stick with older computers" stance, but I don't think that may be a viable solution. Even the most well-built hardware will eventually fail and it can be difficult to find older computers in some cases as normies aren't looking for them so they are either recycled or just collecting dust in someone's garage. Which is why I'm glad to see companies like Framework, ThinkPenguin, and maybe System76 (if they realize their mistakes) providing alternatives. I would still like to give System76 the benefit of the doubt because they did (at least partially) mitigate Intel's Management Engine.

>As for maintaining a server for a storefront, it doesn't require much, you can host one on a low spec server pretty easily even.
If anything

I actually did do a brief training course on AWS for the job I tried to work at. I remember some "advantages" they point out being that they offer autoscaling and their own circuit breaker, discovery services, API gateways, etc for microservices. AWS seems to be the only VPS provider that offers solutions for microservices. Though microservices, might also be just a meme unless you are a major retailer like Wal-Mart. You probably know more about it then I do, so tell me if it is.

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As far as the security comment, AWS does offer encrypting volumes and most data using a KMS key, but they still have full access to your key... and literally all the memory on all your machines.

I've just always run Linux on regular Dell and Lenovo laptops (with the exception of one MSI gaming laptop; which worked really well). I had a workmate who was all about System76. I considered them, but they always seemed to be a bit behind on some core thing I wanted at the time. Kernel/driver/hardware support has gotten good enough in Linux that a lot of stuff mostly works, or just needs a little bit of effort.

Purism is still garbage tier and I have yet to get a phone I preordered in 2019 and they've refused all requests for a refund.

Framework looks really promising. It's also not Linux first focused, which I think is a good thing for it's adoption. There is a post of someone putting the guts of one in an old Thinkpad shell. I hope it starts getting us closer to more standardized laptop parts.

@djsumdog @ryo
>Purism is still garbage tier and I have yet to get a phone I preordered in 2019 and they've refused all requests for a refund.

Oh they still won't release their phone yet? It makes me wonder if the government secretly intervened. Their Librem.one email service also sucks. Not only is it more expensive then other privacy email services like Posteo (or maybe even just renting a VPS + domain for email), but they also require you to fully dox yourself (home address and all) just to use their service, even if you are paying with crypto. Last time, I checked they also require you to pledge an allegiance to freetardism just to use their services.

As for Framework, I know that it's not focused on a particular OS, but they still sell their laptops with Windows pre-installed, if the user wishes to do so. I don't know if the so called "Microsoft tax" applies to their computers if you buy one without Windows though. The so called, "Microsoft tax" is another reason why I think people shouldn't buy (new) Windows computers just to install Linux on them.


An easy way to test that is to install windows on a system from them that ships without an OS. If it pops up an activation window after a week, then Framework only sends some of their device IDs to Microsoft.

If there's no difference in price when removing Windows, they probably just buy a bulk license for all of them.

I miss when you could just go to staples and write down the product key from the sticker on the display model.
@xianc78 @djsumdog @ryo

Pinephone CE chads stay winning :dude_smug:

Have had mine for 2 years now and it still just werks. Yeah Firefox on phosh can be a little buggy and my modem sometimes doesn't wake back up after a long suspend, but overall am I happy to running bare metal busybox/Linux on an open hardware, fully repairable phone.

#pinephone #postmarketos
I do have one of the original Pinephones, but never did much with it. Honestly my three year old Sony phone rarely even connects to LTE anymore. I don't run any Google services (Lineage+microG) and I honestly prefer a device with a slow connection I barely do anything with. Phones are cancer.
@djsumdog @xianc78 @ryo

Well, I just stuck with it and jumped from Manjaro to Arch Linux ARM and finally settled on PostmarketOS which is superior to the later for the Pinephone CE. Now it's stable and decent enough to be usable as a daily driver phone and low spec Linux computer for ssh, tui programs or javascript free web browsing. Can it rival the speed and software choices of Android or iPhone, no. But the trade off is a breaking away from their monopoly, software freedom and privacy.

When I'm home I have mine connected to a wireless keyboard and mouse with a stand and it's not bad. Typing to you on it right now.
I started messing with PostmarketOS on an old Nexus 10, but the tablet stopped powering on and I gave up. It is an impressive project for sure; trying to fight planned obsolescence and give new life to old devices.

@charlie_root @djsumdog @ryo I just wish we had better battery life.
I understand why we don't, with the kernel really not having granular power management controls, but it's more than a nice-to-have for a daily-driver.

@stripey @djsumdog @ryo

You can use aftermarket Samsung J7 batteries in it. I have several, they are really cheap.
@charlie_root @stripey @djsumdog @ryo whats so great about the pinephone is other than just linux it has a replaceable battery, an sd card slot, and removable back, replaceable parts ,and linux lol

@dcc @charlie_root @djsumdog @ryo while all of these things are great and I love them, having to carry around a bunch of spare batteries like a SINCGARS RTO is... suboptimal

@stripey @dcc @djsumdog @ryo

Still beats being spied on and data harvested by big tech. But realistically the phone can last 24hrs on a full charge on suspend and most workplaces have a spot to charge your phone. I almost have to use a spare battery. Unless you're just getting calls and texts non-stop all day, it's really not bad.

@charlie_root @dcc @djsumdog @ryo or if you use it for literally anything else for which one uses a modern mobile device.
Want to navigate? Better be ready to swap out batteries.
Need to look up useful information? Same.

I *love* my Pinephone - but let's be realistic about what needs to improve as far as far management is concerned.

@stripey @dcc @djsumdog @ryo

It is what it is. This will likely be the only Linux phone on the market and sadly I don't see pine64 sticking around for long since the Pinephone Pro was a complete disaster. Purisim is defunct and most Linux users are too spoiled with Android. It was fun while it lasted but mobile Linux doesn't have a bright future outside of flashing consumer hardware with PostmarketOS.
@charlie_root @stripey @djsumdog @ryo pine will stay afloat, as for linux on phones rn the linux on androids seems to be whats popular but prob people will come back to the pinephone
@dcc @charlie_root @stripey @djsumdog

I have a PinePhone for 2 and a half years I think.
Not sure when I bought it, but I know it was back during the Mankojaro Edition cycle.
If you want to know why Linux on mobile isn't going anywhere, then just take a look at Pine64 Forum's help threads.
Over a half of the people there bought a PinePhone just because it's cheaper than an Android phone, and then they expect it to basically become an Android phone, but without Android.
"How do I run WhatsApp?" "How do I run Fakebook?" "How do I run Signal?" "Anbox isn't working!" "Anbox this" "Anbox that"
It's just ridiculous!

But on the plus side, for those of us who wanted to threat a Linux phone as a Linux phone, there has been quite massive advancements regarding Phosh, Plasma Mobile, Lomiri, and SXMO.
Plasma Mobile existed even before Canonical made Ubuntu Touch (which is now UBPorts), and that project kept getting stuck in place for almost a whole decade.
Then the PinePhone came out, and all of the sudden they were able to turn it into a nearly complete product in a matter of just a year.

Just like how Plasma for the desktop tries to mimick Windblows, Plasma Mobile tries to mimick Android.

@xianc78 @ryo >Smaller manufacturers like System76 were probably the most affected.

Very much. I was tracking the backorder situation with Raptor Computing System boards and there was very likely one FPGA that was holding up the line. They’re still listing certain products as backorderd, although it seems to be clearing up.

(I stopped getting notified out of the blue.)
In principle, there's nothing wrong about buying a gaming PC if your intend is to play video games or being required to run bloat because of work or school or something, I have a gaming PC too which I use for video games.
I don't like buying modern laptops because of their increasingly shorter lifespans, increasingly higher difficulty of repairability, and increasingly higher price tags.
If you want to charge me more, then you better give me more durability and freedom to both hardware and software, or I'll just buy another decades old ThinkPad.

@ryo That still doesn't change the fact that even those ThinkPads and ToughBooks will inevitably fail. I'm not against using old computers. If you are able to use a 2009 Thinkpad as your daily driver, then that's great.

I also kind of feel obligated to support these alternative hardware manufacturers, so there will still be that option when using old Thinkpads becomes next to impossible (it would probably take decades but still).

Also, think of a scenario where more and more people wake up to what hardware manufactures like HP, Dell, Apple, Nvidia, Intel, AMD, etc are doing and learn that they can just use older computers if they use a lightweight Linux distro. Prices for older computers would skyrocket. I see the same thing happening with used cars now that they are literally putting DRM (with some countries even mandating it) in cars. The only difference with computers is that there aren't that many countries mandating backdoors in computers (yet).

Basically, I just see using older computers as a short-term solution to a long-term problem.

I'm able to use a ThinkPad X200 as my daily driver actually, but then again I don't use any bloatware.
On occasion I do use Kdenlive and OBS, but that's exclusively on my desktop which has high end modern hardware (high end at the time I built it, which was last year, but perhaps it's already considered low end now because it only has 16 GiB of RAM).
Web browsers are bloatware too, but good luck visiting the clearnet using Dillo, Netsurf, or one of the TUI browsers.

I have no problems with supporting the indie laptop market at all, by all means I'd encourage you do so.
The reason I don't is because none of them ship with a JP-106 keyboard layout, which I grew so accustomed to since childhood, and all the western keyboards have fewer keys, the missing keys are really crucial, so it's not just a matter of putting keyboard stickers on the keys like one of them told me to do.

I'm actually not in the need of a new laptop right now. My current laptop is a Dell gaming laptop (not alienware). It currently has a fan problem, but at the very least, it seems to be repairable.

I honestly, feel in more need of a desktop computer. I actually haven't had one in years. In fact, I never even built one because I was always given laptops as gifts when I needed a new computer, I don't play the latest AAA games so I never felt the need, and the lack of space. But I realize that I feel WAY more productive on a desktop computer than a laptop. However, I'm probably going to build my own desktop if I'm going to get one. I would only consider System76 as they have already mitigated IntelME and flash libreboot (neither which I have ever tried to do before), but I swear their computers are Apple levels of expensive. Even their mini desktops can reach the $1000s.

But I'm also nearing the two year mark on my current laptop and normally something breaks to the point where I can't use it and it is either too difficult (if not impossible) to fix. I'm trying to use this thing for as long as possible though.

>The reason I don't is because none of them ship with a JP-106 keyboard layout

Well, given how non-existent the FLOSS scene is in your country, I doubt that's going to change anytime soon. You can try to ask these companies.

I miss desktops so much. Laptops are all trash and I hate them, no exceptions. Only reason why I use them is that I have no place where I intend to stay, and I can put a laptop or two in a bag, but not a desktop. Also, I don't use the desktops that I have because I don't have an uninterruptible power supply, and I'm sick of losing stuff from power outages. And again, if I buy one, not something that I can just put in a bag and fly with.

May never use one again, which is absolutely terrible, I basically always hated laptops. Even if I do, for a full free software system, I don't even know what I would use. The good Linux distributions only support x86, and x86 is shit. I guess it would have to be FreeBSD on POWER9 (may be the only OS that has a good repository for that), but that costs a fortune. There is also the most powerful single-board computer from Pine, maybe that's an option, but again, software may be limited, because it's fucking ARM.

And then as far as Librebooted desktops go, it's just one old desktop that is weaker than a lot of the supported ThinkPads (especially with the ones added to the list recently). Also a server board, but it's expensive. If System76 stuff is actually Librebooted, then that too is expensive as hell. May be a good option, though, $999 is bearable, considering that it's new. Though it is for the absolute lowest end. Also, I don't like the cases. Soulless, and no drive bays, so I'd have to waste money on something I don't even like. It doesn't seem like they sell motherboards separately.

@terminalautism Back when I worked in fast food. We had some recurring customer that would actually bring a desktop to work on while eating, but it was one of those all-in-one desktops so it might as well be a laptop.

I used to love laptops as a kid. I'm probably much younger, but I grew up during the mobile computing revolutions during the mid-2000s and early 2010s and laptops were the closest you can get to having the full desktop experience on the go, even if it was less portable than a phone, PDA, tablet, or MP3 player. I even wanted to forgo the cell phone and just use a laptop to make phone calls. Thank God I never did, even though smartphones are trash, moreso than laptops.

I don't hate laptops. I just hate using them for everyday computing. I feel like besides planned obsolescence, the reason why I end up replacing my laptop every two years is because I use them way too much.

Also, I made a mistake on System76 using Libreboot. It's actually Coreboot (maybe okay if you're not full freetard), but their computers still seem to be pretty expensive. Even the Meerkat which is supposed to be their equivalent to the Mac Mini can cost >$1000 depending on the configurations you set in your purchase.

I always bring my X200 and portable WiFi router with me while on the go.
As much as I distrust SIM card based WiFi hotspots, I distrust public WiFi hotspots even more.
It would have been fun if you could plug in an Ethernet cable in public spaces, but considering that everyone on the go uses WiFi, that's probably just part of fantasy land.

@ryo I think airplanes used to have ethernet. It used to be common in waiting rooms decades ago, but I haven't checked if they still have them.

Last time I flew overseas (back in 2019), which was the last time I flew at all, I could only spot power sockets and USB sockets.
Some of the newer Shinkansen, limited express train, and long distance train (but 1st class only) models have a power socket too these days.
There are individual FLOSS people here, but oftentimes all working in isolation from one other, mostly underground, and it's rather tiny.
Even then, it feels like all the bigger names are all just foreigners who either are bilingual Japanese + something else, or don't speak the language and just rely on their wifes (or husbands) for translation, and occasionally you'll get actually monolingual people too.
Compared to most other countries in the world, even with everyone included the FLOSS scene here is extremely tiny.

And anyone trying to actually compete with the long established proprietary bloat will get stopped in some way.
I bet that if one day XMPP or Session (or something else) would gain too much attention, then Naver (the Korean company behind LINE) will bribe the government to either make propaganda against their FLOSS alternatives, or make it as hard as possible for those to even appear in any media.
Sounds to be very far fetched, but if Nintendo can create a collective of AAA companies to destroy the internet, I mean fight piracy, then this might be a possibility as well, and just frame FLOSS as a piracy.
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