I think Alice Day is amazing. I don't see what's so awful about it lmao. And as such, I wish all maps a very Wonderful Alice Day 💖💖
@zoocat I wouldn't call it "awful" but thinking about the historical figures it's celebrating, it kind of feels like a celebration of photographing girls "with parental 'consent'" and without the girls having much say in the matter one way or the other.
@shoulderdemon doesn't mean that it will always be as such

Thanksgiving Day has genocidal origins, Yet it is still celebrated year after year in the United States mostly, and worldwide by proxy
@zoocat "doesn't mean that it will always be as such" Do you mean to agree that it is currently problematic by not taking children's autonomy into consideration?

I would like to see that change, but it would take work and I'm not sure how.
@shoulderdemon I mean you can just ask a child if they want their picture taken imo
@zoocat I think that's a slightly different issue from the symbolism of the day itself.
@zoocat My concern is that it's implicitly endorsing what Lewis Carroll did, and how he did it. And often people will explicitly endorse it, too.
@shoulderdemon and may I know what specifically is wrong with taking "photos of young girls"? I'm interested to hear what you think about this 😊
@zoocat Well, like I said at the beginning, I doubt whether the girls had much say in the matter. If child modeling back in the 19th century was less exploitative than it is now, then I'd like to see positive proof of that. Children today still largely get no say in how photos of them are taken or used, and I'd like it if Alice Day were opposed to that state of affairs, or at least neutral, but certainly not to support it.
@zoocat (I'm not demanding proof from you BTW, just saying that absent some evidence to the contrary, I think it's reasonable to assume that these girls were at the mercy of adults.)
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@shoulderdemon @zoocat Is there actually any evidence that it was abusive, or are people just assuming that? Because I haven't seen any real evidence that any abuse occurred, and the most people can point to is that he suddenly stopped associating with the family/girls but that's not really evidence of anything other than they stopped associating, I stopped associating with my karate instructor because I stopped taking karate, and people could say he abused me because our bodies were intertwined on a regular basis, but he didn't, and just because someone thinks a man shouldn't take a picture of a child doesn't mean that if he does it's abuse. A Victorian would be horrified that I wrestled with women in training, does that mean that what we did was improper?

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@Jazzy_Butts @zoocat I don't assume that it was unpleasant in any way for the girls involved. In the same way that children today can have perfectly happy lives, but still lack control over their own lives that is rightfully theirs.
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