@matana @realcaseyrollins @LukeAlmighty this is like responding to an argument for the legality of knives and then bringing up that various cartels have skinned people alive. It is bullshit dishonest tactics. The vast majority of abortion isnt this, nobody is going "rape of little girls should be legal! rapist body rapist choice!"

@travis @matana @realcaseyrollins
Same problem here. I said that hormonal anticonception should be limited, since it is now used even as a cure for acne, and was acused, that I want it restricted even for people that need it to live a life without pointless pain.

@LukeAlmighty @travis @matana Well even the argument that a raped ten year old girl should be able to kill the child is wrong

Method of conception does not legitimize or deligitimize the life

@realcaseyrollins @matana @travis
Damn... How to start with this one.
First off, thanks for being honest. Some debates are just hard. Especially ones involving murder.

Now, to the abortion debate. I have nothing against abortion, but I am not stupid enough to claim it is not a murder. But a stable society needs some building stones to work properly.

Even to survive, every kid needs AT LEAST ONE parent that wants them. I think that one is not controvertial. Kid also needs someone capable of feeding it, and let's say that also taking a relatively good care of it. I would STRONGLY recommend a second parent, but that is not exactly a survivor need.

If a 10yo got pregnant by a criminal, the criminal CANNOT be allowed to become a father. He must go to jail/execution. What about the kid then? If it was born, the stress/hardship could kill the mother and the kid. In this case, a well done abortion could lead to a healthy mother having kids with a loving husband 8 years later. Win for everyone except for the kid, who would die/be killed anyway.

@LukeAlmighty @matana @travis

I have nothing against abortion, but I am not stupid enough to claim it is not a murder

What is the difference between murdering a born human and killing an unborn one?

Even to survive, every kid needs AT LEAST ONE parent that wants them. I think that one is not controvertial(sic). Kid also needs someone capable of feeding it, and let’s say that also taking a relatively good care of it. I would STRONGLY recommend a second parent, but that is not exactly a survivor need.

This sounds more like an argument for the kid to be given away to a foster home or put up for adoption, not killed.

What about the kid then? If it was born, the stress/hardship could kill the mother and the kid. In this case, a well done abortion could lead to a healthy mother having kids with a loving husband 8 years later. Win for everyone except for the kid, who would die/be killed anyway.

I think in this situation it might be valid to carry out an abortion. I support abortion if birth will kill the mother. (Well, I might not agree with that decision, but I do recognize it as morally legitimate at least.) Abortion, like any lethal action, is only justifiable once the life of someone else is jeopardized.

@realcaseyrollins @matana @travis
Interesting destinction.

Death of mother is the line? Her life is ruined. Reputation gone, She's unable to go to school nor feed the kid. A kid, she had to carry for 9 long months and give a birth to, only because she got attacked?

I get, that you are trying to put a hard moral lines into place, but I would offer this line instead. You can live productive life or life on support. If you live a productive life, generations after you are better off then you were. If you live on support, the opposite is true. Kid made from rape will push both his mother and himself deep into the support just by being born under such circumstances.

To respond to @travis, perhaps that is the way of nature, and actually my prefered decision (it makes sense to me that the older generation lays down their life for the younger generation, not the other way around, especially when it is a discussion of parents and their kids), but at the same time the arguments of "hey, I don't want the parent to die" or "it's better for one to die than both to die" also have merit, so I think those decisions should be legal

@LukeAlmighty