Even Hitler had more compassion for animals than some of you Nazi dorks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_welfare_in_Nazi_Germany
@ew @LukeAlmighty Eating them isn’t the problem, it’s killing them, including paying for them to be killed.
@ew @LukeAlmighty Replace “animal” with “human” and test it. If you laid a trap for a human and they walked into it on their own you would be liable.
@ew @LukeAlmighty Like I said, replace “animal” with “human”. If it’s still fine when you do that, then it’s fine.
福神龍 Replace animal with plants and you've got the exact same thing, you just don't think so because you don't mind eating plants.
@anon00110 @LukeAlmighty @ew Plants don’t have brains or nerves. They literally lack a nervous system. Humans and non-human animals both have brains and nerves.
That you know of, they don't have what you consider a central nervous system, that you know of.
It wasn't until just a few years ago that it was discovered plants could communicate with each other with chemical signals and vast root systems.
@anon00110 @LukeAlmighty @ew Too abstract. Be pragmatic. Maybe rocks have feelings, but you’re not a druid and you know the difference between killing a dog and eating an asparagus.
@alex @anon00110 @ew
Now, that is purely artificial line.
Ok, would you be ok, if cows grew up with brain never being developed?
That would mean no pain, no depression, and killing it would not be immoral
@alex @anon00110 @ew
Which ones are okay to kill?
1 yes
2 yes
3 yes
4 yes
5 yes
6 yes
7 yes
8 yes
Yap. I agree. Your line is still artificial
@LukeAlmighty @anon00110 @ew That’s called animal abuse and you would get arrested. So you can take that up with your local government first.
@alex @anon00110 @ew
People get arested for making a video where dog raises a paw
Sorry, I do not respect some dumb politician as an authority on moral behavior.
@alex @LukeAlmighty @anon00110 @ew it depends on why and how you kill it. if you’re a sick asshole and you kill it for fun and you make a sport of it and draw it out then yeah that’s abuse. if you raise an animal explicitly for the purpose of consuming it and using its body for sustenance clothing and other purposes and you kill it in a humane and instantaneous fashion then that’s okay.
most animals that actually haven’t been domesticated and bread for consumption aren’t really all that good eating to be honest. some wild game is good and virtually all of it can be eaten, but you’re going to have some really depressing meals outside of the commonly consumed herbivores out there
@anon00110 @LukeAlmighty @ew I don’t think morality is objective, and I have plenty of questions about it myself. All I’m saying is that within the current moral framework generally accepted by most of society, killing and eating animals is not consistent with our own ethics.
Considering the vast majority of people in our society kill and eat animals your argument only holds true if they accept killing humans is no different than killing animals which as pointed out is an artificial line just like the one where killing animals is wrong, but plants is ok.
@anon00110 @alex @ew
People kill people for 1000 reasons, but killing for food is ok only for some animals? Fuck that.
@anon00110 @LukeAlmighty @ew That’s exactly what I’m saying. My argument is that the line is at sentience - the ability to feel pleasure and pain.
We know for sure that animals are sentient. Overall, we believe that plants are not sentient.
The only reason you compare them is because plants are technically “alive,” by the biological definition of life (eg, they can reproduce). But that does not make something worthy of moral consideration.
Could they theoretically be? Sure. But I’m making decisions today based on what we know today. That’s pragmatism.
What I'm saying, is that the artificial lines are justified however they need to be because ultimately how someone was raised to view moral behavior will dominate regardless of what the reality is.
You don't believe killing plants is wrong, but animals is ok. It doesn't matter how you arrived there, everyone has reasons, so long as you understand it's no different than people believing that murdering humans is wrong but slaughtering animals is ok.
The artificial lines your arriving at are based on your observable reality which isn't an explicit definition of reality. One could say your willful ignorance of the possibility of plants being sentient subverts the morality of your position. That's critical realism.
So you are surely knowing children in famine in Africa are also sentience, but I didn't see you give a shit to them before.
Because they won't lick your hands stupidly.
@anon00110 @LukeAlmighty @ew
@snow @LukeAlmighty @anon00110 @ew It’s not as easy to solve their problems. To end livestock suffering all we have to do is “stop.” Just stop doing it.
@ew @LukeAlmighty Lol sure as long as you did the same with humans.
@alex @ew @LukeAlmighty how else am I supposed to get delicious meat on my plate though?
@LukeAlmighty @alex @ew feeling good and being at peak physical condition is unethical, according to vegans
@Jackuu @LukeAlmighty @ew Please do 5 minutes of research before commenting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9wjW5trM1c
@ew @alex @LukeAlmighty I can guarantee that this man eats products that have to be sourced from half a world away in order for him to get all his daily nutritional macros met, and requires insane amounts of discipline in order to do so
buying locally sourced produce and meat is far more ethical than shipping overpriced luxury food goods across the ocean in massive filthy container ships imo. needing to import all your food because you’re sad about a cow getting its brains blown out is peak bougie behavior
I don't understand, why they don't allow their stupid #vegans eat eggs. Eating eggs DO NOT equal to animal abuse, I know many high quality and high price eggs do not animal abuse in their production.
I think it's caused to by some people have to sell supplements.
@LukeAlmighty @alex @ew
@snow @Jackuu @LukeAlmighty @ew No dummy it’s because they separate all the male chicks at birth and throw them directly into a grinder. I’m 100% serious.
That's true, but I am pretty sure vegans don't eat eggs out of principle.
@issdeinschnitzel @snow @Jackuu @LukeAlmighty @ew I have no problem with lab grown meat, but at this point you still need chickens in battering cages to produce eggs. And the majority of the world aren’t using this technology anyway.
@LukeAlmighty There’s nothing inherently wrong with eating someone (human or animal) after they’re already died of natural causes. But it’s a little weird.