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@alyx why? I agree completely.
@LukeAlmighty
I don't. I have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy myself, but I still think piracy is immoral. It's not the worst thing you could do, not by a long shot. But it's still immoral, even if you pirate from EA.
Only time I view it as a moral grey area, is when you pirate games that are basically unavailable otherwise. Like old console games that you can no longer buy because the developer or publisher refuses to make them available (like Nintendo stuff), or when it was an online game that had it's servers shut down.
@alyx
First: Do you agree a people with no money can pirate games morally? The games are not avaiable to them anyway, so no money is actually lost.
Second: would you agree if someone set a limit? Play game for 2 hours with intent to buy the game, if it's a good product? In that case, the money will go only to the companies with good product instead of companies with good marketing.
Yeah, It is a moral maze for sure, but I just cannot say, that an action that generates "prosperity" out of thin air is something I'm ready to condemn.
Also, my steam library is ridiculous. I have no problem with paying for games. But it's nice to also have a right to try them before I waste enough money to feed me for weeks on game, that I'll never find enjoyable.
@alyx
Also:
> I have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy
about... what? Piracy?
@LukeAlmighty
Yup. I'm not bothered that someone pirates, I won't attack anyone for doing so, but I expect people to be smart enough to not advertise their illegal actions, cause I don't want them getting into trouble over this, and I'd prefer to have plausible deniability.
>Do you agree a people with no money can pirate games morally?
I can sympathize with someone in such a situation, but yeah it's still immoral. Even when it comes to stuff we actually need, like food, water & basic medicine, it can be hard to justify poor people stealing those to survive. For something like video games I can't really see an argument. You could say that it's a means to be able to participate in current pop culture, but that's not exactly a basic human right or something you need to survive.
>would you agree if someone set a limit? Play game for 2 hours with intent to buy the game
I could agree that the act is no longer immoral once you bought the game, and I understand people justifying their action by considering the piracy as a extended trial run or demo, but, to make an analogy, until you actually buy it, it's really nothing more than a promise that you're only borrowing the car and you're not actually stealing it.
>but I just cannot say, that an action that generates "prosperity" out of thin air is something I'm ready to condemn.
Condemn is a strong word, and it's definitely not the message I want to send. I think I view the situation similar to people telling white lies. I can understand people are doing it with the best of intentions, and I'm not gonna badger anyone for doing it, but it's probably still better if you don't do it.
As for generating prosperity out of thin air... well... it's not out of thin air. People do work a lot for these products. And yeah, making a copy is not the same as stealing something, nobody looses a game because you pirated it, but there's still that moral obligation that you pay for your entertainment if that's the expectation of the people creating it.
@alyx
Thank you for taking your time to respectfuly respond to a complicated topic. At this point, all I can say, is that advertising yourself doing any crime is quite retarded.
But yeah. When it comes to the rest, I cannot say I agree.
I find it strange when you're comparing it to stealing food. No, there is not such a need, but when you steal food, someone finds he is poorer the next day. Same does not happen with piracy.
There are many open source developers out there, who are well off by themselves, and downloading their product is ok, but when you coudn't afford to buy a licensed one, suddenly downloading is bad?
I am sorry, but I still cannot get around the equasion here.
A) I get nothing and they get nothing
or
B) I get something and they get gratitude
I just cannot see how A is better then B.
But that's just a personal moral framework. It's truly interesting to inspect ways, that morality can differ between people, but it can truly drive a person insane.
