@cereal American definition of "liberal" is absolutely dumb. I have no clue where it appeared.
>Thinking lolbertarians are a thread

@matrix civil liberties was once a leftie cause.

@cereal
That's true along with free speech

@do @matrix free healthcare doesnt work, look at the state of the UK system

@do
Basically yes.
The TL:DR is that the core building block of society is the individual and their freedom. The freedom to live, the freedom to own property, the freedom to self associate, the freedom to speak freely. The government's job is to protect those freedoms from inside and outside threats.

@matrix I'm really not sure the individualist aspect is necessary for either historical or present liberals. I'm pretty sure many were and are somewhat more collectivist / societal about how these freedoms are supposed to be protected.

I don't remember many names since I'm more casually informed on this topic, but Montesqieu was one of them.
5926194d597a50192a7ef96fb99a400â¦

@do @matrix Modern liberal ideals are in direct conflict with one another which is why you see them turning into Communists instead.

@do
Depends on how you define things. American "liberals" do have a tendency towards leftwing collectivism, that's why I don't like calling them liberals, but for people like Locke and John Stuart Mill, the individual was at the centre.
Here are some decent videos on liberalism:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G42GGKbM87Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6OZuU5VLac

@matrix @do

There need be a balance of individual vs society. Best for individual without detriment to society.

Right now we are seeing all done in the name of the individual and elective identities/mental disorders at the expense of society.

@IsaacWestcott If anything was a mistake, it was universal suffrage. Anything given has no value.

@matrix

Universal Suffrage stems from the ideals of Liberalism: equality and universalism.

Such ideas would find no refuge in any non democratic system.

Universal Suffrage is a Pandora Box; once opened there's no closing it via democratic channels.

@IsaacWestcott @matrix men cucked themselves ever allowing women to vote. It isn't anyone else's fault bar men.
There's no getting out of it either.
Men cucked themselves.

@SatisfactionGuaranteed @IsaacWestcott I've seen some graph on how women getting the right to vote is correlated to increased social programs, taxes and government spending, but I haven't looked at it if it's true.
It's true that self-reliance is a trait more commonly found in men.

@matrix @IsaacWestcott @SatisfactionGuaranteed Women are too empathetic there is no question. Same as men raised by a single mother.

@Rude @IsaacWestcott @matrix single men raised by single mothers who then turn into evangelists are the worst example of the Patriarchy having died. Men absolutely fucked themselves ever allowing women the right to vote. Men have only themselves to blame for societial fuck ups continuing in 2019, not feminists.

They'd never have been feminists had men never allowed women the right to vote

It's all their fault.
Cucked cunts.

@IsaacWestcott Universal Suffrage is a solution to the problem of "Who decides who gets to vote?".
Not a great one, but I can't think of a better one.
You can't get rid of it through democratic means. It's the same with immigrants voting for more government benefits and open borders. (not all immigrants, mainly those unwilling to integrate)

@matrix

No need to #NAXALT me, the mean speaks for itself.

I don't think we can hope for a fully democratic solution, but we'll see what happens. Things can't keep going as they are, something is going to give.