Also, Ayn Rand was a fascist, sorry if you're too dumb to accept that.
"This is objective!" <--- Fuck off.
It's just as bad as when Marxists like to pretend that classical logic "inevitably" leads to Communism™. As though their flimsy and fallible "dialectics" are the heir to Plato himself. Just get fucked.
"This is objective!" <--- Fuck off.
It's just as bad as when Marxists like to pretend that classical logic "inevitably" leads to Communism™. As though their flimsy and fallible "dialectics" are the heir to Plato himself. Just get fucked.
@druid Ahh yes, the opponent of government control was actually for government control. Totally makes sense. I see no problem with that at all. /s
@matrix @druid You can dislike and criticize someone's ideas without trying to categorize them in absurd ways. Fascism economically has always portrayed itself as a "third way" between Capitalism and Communism, and the conflation between Capitalism and Fascism literally only exists in Marxist propaganda.
@ArdanianRight @matrix Tiny brain take, realy not a surprise
@matrix @druid @ArdanianRight Ayn Rand spent her entire life railing against social security and medicare, only to sign up for it herself (and her husband) at the end of her life. Her foundation and her followers have a multitude of weak excuses for why it was ok for her to be a hypocrite instead of starving to death like the "leeches" she condemned to starvation and deprivation for years, because reasons, ok. Also she was a cheating whore who was fond of rape fantasies like the ones she put in her books, but that's not important right now.
http://www.openculture.com/2016/12/when-ayn-rand-collected-social-security-medicare.html
http://www.openculture.com/2016/12/when-ayn-rand-collected-social-security-medicare.html
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@Grandtheftautism @ArdanianRight @druid Yes, but how does that make her a fascist?
@matrix I would have to disagree. She is not a fascist. She is possibly the height of intellectual arrogance though, but not a fascist. 🤔 @Grandtheftautism @ArdanianRight @druid
@matrix @Grandtheftautism @ArdanianRight @druid
There's a lot of overlap between Rand's theories and that of Fascism's, particularly on the idea of myth and rebirth, to Rand society is in danger because the good baron capitalist needs to be defended, that is capitalism *must* be defended and purified to a golden age where it is untainted by any government, the mere intervention in market forces is a sign of degeneration and decadence. In the context of the United States where her ideas have more prevalence the recurring myth is that of the Founding Fathers, the capitalist is one of the heroic figures central to her and the peasant that does not complain is worthy of freedom while the one that would complain is a parasite aiming to steal from the noble capitalist.
I believe that there are things that don't overlap and while the Fascist most likely would not like Rand's ideal society because they would see it as another degenerate shopkeeper society the truth is that Rand's core ideas do overlap with tenets of the Fascist, the recurring ideas of myth, decadence and rebirth are present in both theories.
There's a lot of overlap between Rand's theories and that of Fascism's, particularly on the idea of myth and rebirth, to Rand society is in danger because the good baron capitalist needs to be defended, that is capitalism *must* be defended and purified to a golden age where it is untainted by any government, the mere intervention in market forces is a sign of degeneration and decadence. In the context of the United States where her ideas have more prevalence the recurring myth is that of the Founding Fathers, the capitalist is one of the heroic figures central to her and the peasant that does not complain is worthy of freedom while the one that would complain is a parasite aiming to steal from the noble capitalist.
I believe that there are things that don't overlap and while the Fascist most likely would not like Rand's ideal society because they would see it as another degenerate shopkeeper society the truth is that Rand's core ideas do overlap with tenets of the Fascist, the recurring ideas of myth, decadence and rebirth are present in both theories.
@orekix @matrix @ArdanianRight @Grandtheftautism I was, as I said to saga, kinda channeling dtluna with the OP, but this is such a great observation that I'm fucking stunned
It's good to see you still doing well, Orekix
It's good to see you still doing well, Orekix
@orekix @matrix @ArdanianRight @druid i do see your point here; she was very much a fan of the "shut up and eat your crumbs" model of social welfare.
@orekix @matrix @Grandtheftautism @druid That's a reasonably fair statement. There's naturally overlap in inherently right-wing movements, which both of those clearly are. But naturally there's going to be very different focuses for strongly individualist and collectivist ideologies.
@orekix @ArdanianRight @Grandtheftautism @druid That's so extremely broad that you could apply this to anything. Mythical heroes are really common in fiction.
I also don't like the implications that celebration of capable people is bad.
@matrix @orekix @ArdanianRight @druid Celebration of capable people happens every day in the form of fortune and sometimes fame, depending on their field of endeavor. They don't need any more compensation than that imho.
@Grandtheftautism @matrix @druid @orekix It's necessary to counterbalance the vilification of the successful that's at the core of much leftist ideology.
@ArdanianRight @druid @matrix @orekix if we'd done what Ayn Rand wanted and let the capable oppress and starve the less capable, the leftists would have a valid point rather than just being idiots.
@Grandtheftautism @druid @matrix @orekix I mean I don't endorse implementing her ideology in full, I just think she provided some very necessary pushback in her own time. Having some value is not the same as being right about everything.
@ArdanianRight @druid @matrix @orekix she just went way too far in her crusade against altruism imho. A REASONABLE amount of altruism is the difference between a civilized society and a 3rd world hellscape.
@Grandtheftautism @ArdanianRight @matrix @orekix Why the fuck would you want an upper limit on altruism?
You know what, don't bother answering.
You know what, don't bother answering.
@druid @ArdanianRight @Grandtheftautism @orekix Because it is extremely exploitable
@matrix @druid @Grandtheftautism @orekix The fact that anyone needs to ask is why Ayn Rand was and is necessary. It's not noble to give all your money to the first con artist you see because "muh altruism." There's a lot of people who'll take advantage of generosity in this world and you being a sucker doesn't help any worthwhile cause. Absolute altruism means being a doormat for the rest of the world, who won't return your kindness. There's definitely some people who need to be told not to be so selfish, but there's also people who need to be told that you don't need to be a doormat and it's okay to pursue your own happiness.
@ArdanianRight @matrix @Grandtheftautism @druid @orekix This post reminds me of the screenshots where people shared their stories about doing business in China. There are people out there that absolutely suck. Being taught not to let them pull one over on you is unfortunately a very necessary lesson.
@druid @ArdanianRight @matrix @orekix because there's a difference between philanthropy and giving away the farm.
@matrix @ArdanianRight @druid i don't really have a position as to whether she was a fascist or not; my beef with her is that she was a hypocrite and a whore whose entire ideology expired back in 1982 when she turned her back on every principle she'd previously espoused. Too bad she didn't die before she managed to convince people like Alan Greenspan that social safety net programs should be reduced, causing suffering to untold thousands; we can thank social security and Medicare for keeping her alive long enough to ensure that later generations got fewer benefits than she enjoyed in her lifetime.
@matrix No but it does make her a massive hypocrite and really that's much more important. @Grandtheftautism @ArdanianRight @druid