@matrix
>"I'm going to steal your hard work and throw you in jail. I'm very humane."
Didn't happen

@matrix (without reason)

@Spaghettimon So collectivization wasn't a thing? Interesting take

@matrix (changing to my political acc, sorry) Oh it was, but different from how many people think of "literally putting a gun in someone's head unless they give a farm"
Also, many of the owners, due to experience, were allowed to be the managers of the collectivized farms, though obligated to teach farm management to those who wished to work with such, besides the foreign people the Soviets hired to teach modern farm, factory and machinery management to the people
And the prisons are very overestimated, most were willing to be expropriated due to a nice enough deal from the Soviet government and in Ukraine, for example, it only came to happen after 15 years of the new government

@Spag
I never claimed that it was cartoonish "literally putting a gun to someone's head", although sometimes was, but you just reworded what I said, but in an apologetic language.

>were allowed to be the managers of the collectivized farms, though obligated to teach farm management
Slavery, but with extra steps?

@matrix It would be slavery with extra steps if they were obligated to do so. As I said, "allowed"
Many of those allowed preferred to exchange for a home in the city, monetary compensation and other deals of the sort

@Spag They weren't compensated or preferred to move. They were given order to give their property to the collective farm. If they complied they were allowed to live in their original property and work on the collective farm (that's imo worse than just theft, because the thieve is also rubbing it in your face). If not they had their property confiscated, were arrested and sent to jail, family relocated.

@matrix
> If not they had their property confiscated, were arrested and sent to jail, family relocated
This only happened with nazi sympathizers, for during the years before WW2 that was considered "treason against the working class"

Even for those, many still were only exiled instead of simply killed or sent to jail

As a fun tidbit, I think, it's that only some farms were collectivized. Most collective farms were brand-new and most of the old ones became private cooperatives

@Spag
Communists are very well know for accurately assessing what a Nazi is. "only happened with nazi sympathizers" is part of that propaganda. It happened even to people who actively took part in resistance against nazis.

>Most collective farms were brand-new and most of the old ones became private cooperatives
Again, you are simply playing apologetics

@matrix "Nazi" as in "someone who was paid by or had relations with the national socialist party of germany", if you wanted the soviet definition at the time

@Spag Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure.

@Spag @matrix (genocidal authoritarian dictator voice) "yeah our genocidal authoritarian dictatorship was actually good and ethical because we only killed the bad guys, they were all nazi sympathizers i guess, they deserved it"

@galena @matrix
"genocidal"
The Holodomor is proven propaganda
There was a huge draught, of the sort not seen in many decades, and the USSR provided foodaid (decree 144) and spent 30% of the State budget into rebuilding Ukraine for 5 years

@Spag @matrix Sorry I don't listen to propaganda from genocide apologists

@Spag @matrix Your next line will be "wooden doors".

@galena @matrix The interesting thing about wooden doors is that it's a moot point

The holocaust did happen, but pointing out wooden doors means literally nothing

We have documents proving the genocide

@Spag @matrix Why do you think I would give a single fuck about anything a communist pedophile has to say about anything?

@galena @matrix
>Why do you think I would give a single fuck about anything a [person i don't like] has to say about anything?

@Spag @matrix I don't care what you think. I came into this thread for the sole purpose of insulting you, and I have achieved my goals quite successfully. Meanwhile you have failed to convince a single person that the genocidal dictatorship you're simping for is anything other than a genocidal dictatorship.

@galena @matrix Well, at least I believe in something

@Spag @matrix Genocide and child rape aren't worth believing in.

@galena @matrix Good that I don't believe that the Holodomor was a genocide then

@galena @matrix I'm not a genocide apologist, it's what happened

@matrix A government decree is also not propaganda, not also a literal fucking huge factory complex

@Spaghettimon Censorship in Czechoslovak Socialist Republic officially ended in 1968 and yet it didn't stop. Reading the laws only gets you so far.

3rd party statistics you say? Those seem to be saying the opposite of your claims

@matrix
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954

It was in the context of the cold war and both sides censored each other until its end, just like the US is now once again censoring its enemies and its enemies censoring again the US

@Spag
>outlaw enemy sponsored party wanting violent revolution in a poorly written law
vs
>setup huge apparatus of censors through which all publication must go through, jail people entrepreneurship, only allow one party

"but muh both sides"

@Spag *for entrepreneurship

@matrix

>jail people for entrepreneurship
[an.1]

>only allow one party
The party is but one of the organizations which could have candidates [an.2]
Also, they saw that dividing between multiple parties didn't serve to make more ideas heard since every individual has a different idea, but that multiple parties would only serve to create internal conflict for they would see it more as a thing of one team against the other than the policies their candidates supported. Also [an.3]

@Spag
1. You had to join a "guild" (forgot the word) to do so
2.Only selected and approved by the party. Elections also often violated principles of your vote being secret.

@matrix Hey babe, I showed my source, show yours

@Spag OOC quotes aren't really sources

https://journals.openedition.org/monderusse/pdf/9370

@Spag
Yes I know it's the USSR constitution

@Spag
Kinda dumb point on my part, but I forgot to say even places like the US, the freeist country on the planet violates it's constitution and has laws that pervert justice (communists cheer those on btw), so just because something is written in the constitution doesn't mean it's upheld

@matrix What you posted is a good and well formulated document even if the wording is biased, I won't critique it over the facts it presents dw

@Spaghettimon @matrix
> A country's constitution is not propaganda

That is literaly the point of constitution.
Our constitution outright says, that "censorship is unacceptable". Simlle as that. While our laws have MANY kinds of censorship enforced.

Constitution says what the government wants you to think the values are, while the enforced laws do not have to adhere to it at all.

@LukeAlmighty @Spaghettimon @matrix Hell, not just constitutions, but the actual NAMES of countries too. For example, the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea".