the truth is half the class of first year CS students change their major by midterms already
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@Moon
What I find weird is that basics of programming is the first great filter, even at my previous uni where they teach it with Python and the hardest thing they want is text based tic-tac-toe.

@matrix the first group of people are the people who can't into loops, followed by recursion probably. also a lot of people suddenly realize it's not going to be "fun" like they thought.

@Moon
Nested loops can be a bitch, but I would assume that people who want to study CS have tried programming atleast once.

@matrix @Moon

> I would assume that people who want to study CS have tried programming atleast once.
couldn't be farther from the truth
@Telvannichad @Moon @matrix the closest thing is if you learn xml and its translation languages
@matrix @Moon those who have can see through the bullshit of the average CS education, it doesn't take half a year to finish an introductory book, but there's a surprisingly many courses that will manage even less than that, because otherwise you filter off to many payers

if you can learn on your own, and you have to in the industry of ever moving goal posts, there's little to no point in paying for it
@matrix @Moon more like a free job with a shitty manager and deadlines, not worth the hassle unless you really need to kindergarten enterprise experience
@pleb @matrix @Moon this, except you dont learn compsci for industry, you learn some form of engineering usually, but people are retarded and think everyone just "works in IT/computers"
@pleb @Moon @matrix virginia tech has an actual compeng school and youre required to do "compsci" shit as a prerequisite and i wish it was more theory than just "lol print out hello world in seeples"
@wowaname @matrix @Moon those courses aren't much better either, the whole industry has yet to catch up to itself
"I've feed punch cards into mainframes", "we're reading the book i've written two decades ago" isn't quite the boast people want to hear from educators, but everyone still useful just kept their actual jobs
@pleb @wowaname @matrix @Moon most people don't look to teach in the first place, they fail into teaching.
@wowaname @matrix @pleb yeah I think a lot of places have a dedicated software engineering major now so you can get right into it without a lot of theory.
@shmibs @wowaname @matrix @pleb @Moon when I used to look for a job, I'd ask the manager or ceo what main os they use for thier own personal stuff and if they said windows, I wouldn't work for them lol. It may sound stupid but windows is a shit tier os and everybody knows it. To those that say that gnu is too hard just simply never took the time to learn more about it. Shit my current employer hates windows even though we are sysadmins. Windows though brings in the most work. Some shit in windows always breaks for no reason, and the client always comes back which means there is always money to be made. In Linux you can fix the problem and it will never break again which in turn means the client will never come back.
@StonedPirate @shmibs @Moon @matrix @pleb @wowaname this is the sorta person I compete for jobs for lol. It really is easy mode
@pleb @matrix I wasn't allowed to skip the introductory courses and they moved at a glacial pace.
@matrix @Moon java made me quit and I still became a devops dude regardless cuz not enough tech nerds in germany to fill positions with lol
@igelsQTs @matrix @Moon see devops is actually one of the fields that has a lot of applied computer science compared to code monkeying
@igelsQTs @matrix @Moon

>not enough devops in Germany

Maybe I should go back to studying/practicing devops shit :02_think:
@captain_arepa @matrix @Moon coders arent interested in devops and the usual apprenticeship graduate hates linux.
@igelsQTs @Moon @matrix isnt that a sysadmin?

I recently started a job in cloud linux support for one of the big ones but they said I'ts not a devops position, It's more about the specific platform than linux itself though
@weeaboo @igelsQTs @matrix devops is a real thing but hard to define the boundaries.
@Moon @igelsQTs @weeaboo @matrix devops was mostly born out of the ability to define what used to be hardware in software

those database racks are now a pile of yaml you have to figure out how to generate unless you want to go crazy changing them by hand
@pleb @igelsQTs @weeaboo @matrix my last job I was sysadmin, devops and cloud architect at the same time, very satisfying tbh. benefit of being in a small place.
@weeaboo @Moon @matrix it's a matter of opinion. I see sysadmin as legacy administration stuff like a windows AD admin or a linux admin who copies entire VMs for a backup
@igelsQTs @Moon @matrix I see, devOps sounds nice I think I wanna be that in the future.
@weeaboo @Moon @matrix I masturbated twice today and wrote 2 lines of code
@weeaboo @Moon @matrix fake it till you make it, thats my career in a nutshell
@weeaboo @igelsQTs @Moon @matrix you make the code AND you have to put it on the server and babysit it yourself too
@hakui @weeaboo @matrix @Moon I hardly call this yaml shit coding. Unlike programming in uni I actually understand it somewhat
@hakui @weeaboo @matrix @Moon I sometimes add code to shit and then my boss gets mad at me for being an amateur who doesnt use the right tools and overcomplicates everything
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