@realcaseyrollins Nonsense, economy is not zero sum game.
Anyone who thinks economics is a zero-sum game needs to read Sowell's Basic Economics. The whole purpose of economics is to make sure that goods flow to where they're needed most. The reason most meddling in markets causes more problems than it solves is that it involves introducing either a leech on the allocation (i.e. the speculators trying to profit off Tulip Mania in the 17th century) which makes the product unable to flow economically to its intended audience, or it ensures misallocation of resource by either making a product artificially unaffordable, or artificially too affordable to where it's acquired by the people who don't need it to the exclusion of those who do.
Economics is a natural rationing system. The reason it's beneficial that duct tape rises in price tenfold in a disaster area is not to make it more profitable (though it does have that effect), but to make sure you only buy one roll when you need it instead of six and make it impossible for others to get it. Put a limit of one per person and you just get five members of the same family buying one each, but if you raise the price, they won't buy more than they have to.
@realcaseyrollins
@leyonhjelm @realcaseyrollins @Mac_CZ
If you think that the economy is a zero sum game, I take it as a proof that you never produced ANYTHING of value in your life.
@realcaseyrollins@counter.fedi.live
@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ
No, it's not.
You have a bun
You have a sausage
You have a roll
If you ever heated up the sausage and put these things together, and you know how much do people pay for a hot dog, most kids can come to the realization, that the math does not add up.
@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ
*I meant to say kechup instead of roll, but you get my point...
@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ
Are you talking definitions here or are you trying to make a point?
Yes, in primitive willage a guy with spear is rich. In here, a guy without air conditioning is poor.
That is quite a difference don't you think? The moment you can produce more value then you need, you do start an infinite loop. Because if you can meet your needs by working 9 hours instead of 10, you are more likely to find more ways to make it into an 8.
If you cut your expenses to a reasonable level, then in here you can live on a part time job already. And that is with average pay. That is quite an acomplishment. That is possible only if you live among people who know how to generate value. And it can go away as soon as people stop producing more then they need.
Now back to the point I think you are trying to make. Have you ever watched survivor shows? I don't like them, but you can clearly see there 3 stages of work. First stage are women 
. You will never see them work, and if you leave them alone, they WILL die. Second stage is what you would call poor. These people are willing and able to work. They will make a spear, and fish. They do understand the need for production. But there are also people from the 3rd group. Dreamers that might seem relatively lazy, not spending all of their time hunting and tinkering instead. but these people will eventually make a net. After that, they will find a way to make better tools etc.
These people, I do worship. Because each of their works make the life of everyone easier. They do turn work from a zero sum game into a game of exponencial gain.
@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ
Well, I might be dumb, but I still don't see your point. Would you mind going into more detail?
The problem is his point is based on a faulty assumption which seems to reject a lot of important value forms.
@realcaseyrollins @Mac_CZ
You couldn't be more wrong. You're acting as if all wealth is money. That is completely false.
@LukeAlmighty @Mac_CZ
Your questions contain outlandish circular references in regards to what I've said. Please rephrase and try again.
@LukeAlmighty @Mac_CZ
You can't seem to keep yourself from judging wealth in purely monetary or other clearly intrinsic base value. Services are at least as valuable as goods, and many goods are of more value to one person than to the person selling it to them.
Most everyday transactions are geared towards mutual satisfaction. Those that aren't, I recommend the dissatisfied party should seek out alternatives.
@LukeAlmighty @Mac_CZ
There can be equal exchanges, where the buyer gets widgets or services that provide equivalent subjective value for them money they give the seller. There can even be legal requirements that promote this (accurate but clear labelling, no shrinkwrap clauses, mandated return & refund periods, health and safety requirements, etc).
Sadly both of the #twin_parties are corrupt, and unwilling to make or enforce such requirements on their corporate benefactors.
@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ
Alright.
I know that righ getting all of the money sounds intuitive, but I honestly have no idea how can your model of economy even work.
So, If I sound condescending in this comment, it is only because I am trying to describe every step.
The only way to "get rich" is to generate value for others. Each coin a rich person has is from a transaction. They had to offer something the other person valued more then their money. Now, that the rich person has a money suply, he can do 2 things.
Buy a yacht or pay his employees.
If he buys a yacht, his money leaves him and he can no longer generate value. He becomes effectively poor and has to start working as soon as he runs out of food.
On the other hand, if he pays employees, he is organiying production that would not happen without him. Each employee is better off working then unemployed. Then, he has to figure out the way to distribute his product and finally, every piece of his product must provide value to each of buying customers.
The way to get rich is to make life of people around you easier, not harder. That is how the economy should in principle work.
Obviously, there are government-supported monopolies and anti-competetive practices, but this system still works enough to get us from desert to artificial biome known as cities with shops at every corner.
@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ
Don't get me wrong.
You are not the first person to say things like this to me by a lot. And I am honestly interested to know where these opinions are comming from.
Frequently when I encounter these arguments, it's because someone has been hearing arguments which only measure value as units of money or similar, and forget the other kinds. Especially skills, goods, services, and goodwill.
The last of these is the reason a destitute person who formerly had money can often get back to extreme prosperity. The goodwill of their wealthy and influential friends is a form of capital.
@realcaseyrollins @Mac_CZ
@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @LukeAlmighty If you made 2 chairs and need only one and your neighbor has 2 breads and need only one, so when you exchange chair for bread, you both gained. This is how economy works. Money itself is just a tool that make exchanges easier, they're just voucher saying, you were useful to the others for some time, so you're entitled for some adequate amount of time from the others.
