And vice versa

@realcaseyrollins Nonsense, economy is not zero sum game.

@Mac_CZ

Anyone who thinks economics is a zero-sum game needs to read Sowell's Basic Economics. The whole purpose of economics is to make sure that goods flow to where they're needed most. The reason most meddling in markets causes more problems than it solves is that it involves introducing either a leech on the allocation (i.e. the speculators trying to profit off Tulip Mania in the 17th century) which makes the product unable to flow economically to its intended audience, or it ensures misallocation of resource by either making a product artificially unaffordable, or artificially too affordable to where it's acquired by the people who don't need it to the exclusion of those who do.

Economics is a natural rationing system. The reason it's beneficial that duct tape rises in price tenfold in a disaster area is not to make it more profitable (though it does have that effect), but to make sure you only buy one roll when you need it instead of six and make it impossible for others to get it. Put a limit of one per person and you just get five members of the same family buying one each, but if you raise the price, they won't buy more than they have to.

@realcaseyrollins

@leyonhjelm @realcaseyrollins @Mac_CZ
If you think that the economy is a zero sum game, I take it as a proof that you never produced ANYTHING of value in your life.

@LukeAlmighty @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ that's a bit harsh man

@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ
No, it's not.

You have a bun
You have a sausage
You have a roll

If you ever heated up the sausage and put these things together, and you know how much do people pay for a hot dog, most kids can come to the realization, that the math does not add up.

@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ
*I meant to say kechup instead of roll, but you get my point...

@LukeAlmighty @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ well more to our conversation wouldn't that refer to how there's a finite amount of money, and thus for there to be "poor" people, there must be someone "rich" who has more money than them?

@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ
Are you talking definitions here or are you trying to make a point?

Yes, in primitive willage a guy with spear is rich. In here, a guy without air conditioning is poor.

That is quite a difference don't you think? The moment you can produce more value then you need, you do start an infinite loop. Because if you can meet your needs by working 9 hours instead of 10, you are more likely to find more ways to make it into an 8.

If you cut your expenses to a reasonable level, then in here you can live on a part time job already. And that is with average pay. That is quite an acomplishment. That is possible only if you live among people who know how to generate value. And it can go away as soon as people stop producing more then they need.

Now back to the point I think you are trying to make. Have you ever watched survivor shows? I don't like them, but you can clearly see there 3 stages of work. First stage are women . You will never see them work, and if you leave them alone, they WILL die. Second stage is what you would call poor. These people are willing and able to work. They will make a spear, and fish. They do understand the need for production. But there are also people from the 3rd group. Dreamers that might seem relatively lazy, not spending all of their time hunting and tinkering instead. but these people will eventually make a net. After that, they will find a way to make better tools etc.

These people, I do worship. Because each of their works make the life of everyone easier. They do turn work from a zero sum game into a game of exponencial gain.

@LukeAlmighty @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ yeah I was going back to our "zero sum game" discussion in relation to economy and rich vs. poor statuses within societies

@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ
Well, I might be dumb, but I still don't see your point. Would you mind going into more detail?

@LukeAlmighty @leyonhjelm So @Mac_CZ said the economy is not a "zero sum game". The definition of a zero sum game is a scenario in which there are essentially equal wins to equal losses. If one person gains, another person suffers a loss. However that is exactly how all economies work. There's a finite amount of money, so if one person is "rich", others who cannot procure as much money are "poor".

@realcaseyrollins

You couldn't be more wrong. You're acting as if all wealth is money. That is completely false.

@LukeAlmighty @Mac_CZ

@leyonhjelm @LukeAlmighty @Mac_CZ How so? When's the last time someone made money without someone else either losing money or losing other assets of value? Only in the case of bailouts or welfare in a control economy, or charity in capitalistic and other economies, does that occur.

@realcaseyrollins @leyonhjelm @Mac_CZ
Alright.
I know that righ getting all of the money sounds intuitive, but I honestly have no idea how can your model of economy even work.

So, If I sound condescending in this comment, it is only because I am trying to describe every step.

The only way to "get rich" is to generate value for others. Each coin a rich person has is from a transaction. They had to offer something the other person valued more then their money. Now, that the rich person has a money suply, he can do 2 things.

Buy a yacht or pay his employees.

If he buys a yacht, his money leaves him and he can no longer generate value. He becomes effectively poor and has to start working as soon as he runs out of food.

On the other hand, if he pays employees, he is organiying production that would not happen without him. Each employee is better off working then unemployed. Then, he has to figure out the way to distribute his product and finally, every piece of his product must provide value to each of buying customers.

The way to get rich is to make life of people around you easier, not harder. That is how the economy should in principle work.

Obviously, there are government-supported monopolies and anti-competetive practices, but this system still works enough to get us from desert to artificial biome known as cities with shops at every corner.