@sickburnbro @borzoi @MechaSilvio
Extremelly ill-defined queation
What is a society? Immagine one person. Is he in a society? no.
Add another person. both hate eachother, so they move away from each other. Are they in society? no.
If they like each other, they can start communicating, hunting together etc. Both are gaining benefit from their interactions.

Society was created. Now, was there a purpose to this? That would be extremely utilitarian look at 2 people enjoying each others presence and I refuse this framing.

@LukeAlmighty @borzoi @MechaSilvio I don't know what to tell you bro, you live in a society. Pretending otherwise is schizophrenic.

@sickburnbro @borzoi @MechaSilvio
Now that is a great jump in logic.

Yes, I live in a society
so?

@LukeAlmighty @borzoi @MechaSilvio Great, so what do you think the purpose of a society is?

@sickburnbro @borzoi @MechaSilvio
Extremelly ill-defined queation
What is a society? Immagine one person. Is he in a society? no.
Add another person. both hate eachother, so they move away from each other. Are they in society? no.
If they like each other, they can start communicating, hunting together etc. Both are gaining benefit from their interactions.

Society was created. Now, was there a purpose to this? That would be extremely utilitarian look at 2 people enjoying each others presence and I refuse this framing.

@LukeAlmighty Except society isn't designed as a mental problem, but something that exists. If you can't figure out how to make it into a simplest case, that's a you problem.

@sickburnbro
Well, you asked a weird question. I anwsered to the best of my abilities. If you consider my view of artificial construct called "society" a problem, you can always re-define it for your line of argumentation to continue, try different argument. Or just try name calling.

Whatever you preffer.

@LukeAlmighty That's part of the problem that I'm trying to get to - it's not a weird question. Do you think I'm asking these questions to be an asshole?

Any question like "what should be the age of consent" is a subset of the question of "what kind of society do you want to live in"

If you can't even answer what is the purpose of a society, how can you have a useful grasp on any of these questions?

@sickburnbro
Because there is a huge difference between group of and government.

Government is a mafia organization gathering your resources and enforcing arbitrary rules over you.

Some people do see society as a whole of all people under one mafia. Some people see society as a network with you in center and nodes being made by your interactions with people.

@LukeAlmighty How do you think something like Alþingi came to be?

@sickburnbro
Is there something special about that particular mafia?

@LukeAlmighty I mean, you can read wikipedia as well as anyone else, so you should be able to answer that question.

Do you believe enforcing your will on another person is immoral?

@sickburnbro
As always, I will go with: Are you intencionally using as vague queations as possible?

@LukeAlmighty You keep talking about 'mafia' - so the matter is just to reduce your concern to the base level question.

@sickburnbro
Well, let me slice it into seperate queations.
Do I believe it is ok to work to earn food? Yes
Enforcing my will on nature
Do I believe it is moral to kill animal to get food: yes
Enforcing my will on nature
Do I believe it's moral to resist an attack? yes
Enforcing my will on attacker
Do I believe it is moral to kill an innocent person to survive? seriously queationable.

Do I believe it is moral to take someones money to give it to other people? no
That is also enforcing will to others.
Do I believe it is moral to enslave, blackmail, inprison etc without any danger from the other side? Hell no!!!

Do you see just how vague that question was?

@LukeAlmighty Sure. thanks for answering.

What if someone is coming to burn down your house? Is it ok to stop them? How can you be sure they are going to burn it down?

@sickburnbro
I am starting to thing you're just trolling.
I anwsered above about aelf defense, and you know that explaining neaunance of recognising agressive act accurately is a task that modern AI researchers still didn't solve.

@LukeAlmighty No, I'm not trolling at all. That's the point of the question - I assume that you, like I, enjoy having a roof and some walls.

People have and still do burn down houses as a way to hurt people. Depending on how one conceives self defense, defending something other than your actual personal bodily safety is not acceptable. So I asked that.

@LukeAlmighty @sickburnbro
Why are mastadon users always so dumb

@LukeAlmighty

To illustrate with something concrete:
Where i live, packs of children begging for candy on halloween are now routinely escorted by an adult.
Ten years ago that seemed nuts.

The extend to which you expect your neighbor to look out for your children too, is that too abstract for you?

@mute_city
Well, trust is hardly a measurable unit, so yes, trust in people in your area is an abstract concept.

The example you used on the other hand is a measuraple phenomenon. Why is the concept of abstraction important to this debate?

@LukeAlmighty

> Why is the concept of abstraction important to this debate?

Because of the style of your argumentation.
Example :

> Well, trust is hardly a measurable unit

And the rest of it, that looks like "things that can not be modeled in almost algebraic ways are too vague to consider". I understand this, i'm a sperg myself. :)
And i should have said: "too vague" - my bad.

We don't have a rigorous - and complete enough to be useful - model of human social dynamics yet.
And we don't have the luxury to defer decisions until one emerges.

Thus i would argue:
the heueristic brought further up the thread of "what would you want if it was YOUR daughter" is a good one.

@LukeAlmighty We live in a Gesellschaft. We are able to have constructive social interactions with strangers, because we all adhere to common patterns and standards of behaviour. One of these standards is ‘don’t rape kids’. If we only lived in a Gemeinschaft, then perhaps we could afford to judge things on a case by case basis and distinguish creepy predation of impressionable children from getting an early start in healthy family formation. That requires personal and particular knowledge that is unavailable in Gesellschaft, so we have to resort to hard and bright lines like ‘the age of consent is 17’.

@cognate
Thanks, for the long wall of text, but do you want to tell me something with this?

@LukeAlmighty I was responding to the “Yes, I live in a society so?” thread of conversation, introducing Max Weber’s definition of society/Gesellschaft and trying to show how, with that definition, the statement “We live in a society” becomes meaningful to the topic at hand.

@LukeAlmighty @cognate god you are a faggot

@sickburnbro @LukeAlmighty @MechaSilvio @borzoi the purpose of a society is to deconstruct it until you can convince someone that fucking kids is ok

@Ottovonshitpost @sickburnbro @LukeAlmighty @borzoi Libertarians not being Pedophiles ("ACKCHYUALLY IT'S EPHEBOPHILIA") for 5 minutes challenge (IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!)

@MechaSilvio @Ottovonshitpost @borzoi @sickburnbro digression into how inbred nobles in the 12th century would consummate marriages at 14 despite hating everything else about the Middle Ages

@MechaSilvio @borzoi @Ottovonshitpost @sickburnbro
So artificial line set by a politician is a natural fact, but an artificial line set by psychologist is an excuse.

@LukeAlmighty @MechaSilvio @borzoi @sickburnbro there's no politician that tells me to dig an artificial hole in the ground for kid fuckers

@Ottovonshitpost @borzoi @MechaSilvio @sickburnbro
I know... That would make them useful for once in their life.

@LukeAlmighty @MechaSilvio @borzoi @Ottovonshitpost Who said there is anything not socially constructed about a country's borders?

@LukeAlmighty @borzoi @Ottovonshitpost @sickburnbro artificial double hole in your head if you're ever 100 yards of underage girls

@LukeAlmighty @MechaSilvio @borzoi @Ottovonshitpost @sickburnbro
Saying something is artificial doesnt make it illegitimate and is ultimately the difference between fascists and liberals. Fascist say this is line and you wont cross while liberals want to constantly erase the line. I dont care if it "artificial" the lines are legitimate

@Boomerman @LukeAlmighty @MechaSilvio @Ottovonshitpost @borzoi Just as true, just because something is a state of nature doesn't make it desirable.

@LukeAlmighty @MechaSilvio @Ottovonshitpost @borzoi @sickburnbro and fuck google for making me type like a retard

@LukeAlmighty @MechaSilvio @borzoi @Ottovonshitpost @sickburnbro

> artificial line set by a politician

bargained for with rivers of blood
renegotiated every other generation with fresh rivers

@mute_city @LukeAlmighty @MechaSilvio @Ottovonshitpost that comes later.