@BasedLunatic @alyx China is just socialist lol.
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@dcc @alyx google is basically owned by intelligence services. All of it. They wouldn't just say this if it's not easily obtainable knowledge that most who have written about it have mentioned. Impossible to hide obvious information in other words. I used Gemini, but I am sure a more independent AI will give you same answer, or just look it up yourself

@BasedLunatic @alyx >They wouldn't just say this
I don't really care what ai says nor what goole says, your appeal to authority is retarded. I just posted a meme that makes your entire argument invalid lol.

@dcc @alyx >appeal to authority
>>factual available information
>>earth is round is appeal to authority

@dcc @alyx I have no desire or would like to live in a Chinese style system. But I don't just repeat what mass media feeds the masses. When anyone can inform themselves

@BasedLunatic

Hmm is this a Earth-is-not-round thread?

Cooooool.

(Round earther here. But I believe in Hollow Earth too. I have my reasons for disbelieving flat earth.

I tagged myself in to follow the thread - please continue.)

@alyx @dcc

@BasedLunatic @alyx
>>>earth is round is appeal to authority
Non sequitur lol, the fact remains if you think china is anything but socialist you are definitionally wrong.

@dcc @alyx it's not me who said it it's common available knowledge on internet, from most sources you can find. I have no opinion other than what I deduce is reality from people who studied the country, including American universities and the American government institutions themselves. How can I know anything about China without reading. By divine messages from God

@BasedLunatic @alyx >it's common available knowledge
This is not how this works lol, you wonder why you know nothing.
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@dcc @alyx many times drunk in bar says something, I know it's not connected to reality, but since I don't care about politics, I don't correct him. Probably read it in a "article " you can find statistical facts and interpret them by yourself

@dcc You say socialist.

I say - oligarchic de facto capitalist society, masquerading a communist state to appeal to leftists around the world and in the population, to have an excuse to use exceptional violence as a mean to supress revolts, and to hide the fact that the oligarchic government class is in fact a well run machine of international organized crime i.e. a mafia.

@BasedLunatic @alyx

@Godsend @BasedLunatic @dcc @alyx tl;dr

@Godsend @BasedLunatic @alyx >de facto capitalist society,
There is no capitalism if the state can mess with business. Thats just socialism.
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@dcc By this definition - isn't even the USA socialist?

At least it was during Covid. Shut down so many business because of dumb vaccination rules.

I call it capitalist because, as long as people don't piss the govt off, they can make insane profits with insane efficiency in China.

To call China "socialist" in the same way that the West has tried socialism is frankly insulting to Chinese ingenuity. They are the only fuqqers on the planet that can make communism/socialism seem to have some appeal. Because they are Chinese - ruthless and market-oriented.

@BasedLunatic @alyx

@Godsend @BasedLunatic @alyx >isn't even the USA socialist?
Yes it is ergo the meme i posted at the start, thats exactly the point.

@dcc I didn't review whole thread. Sorry I missed this. @BasedLunatic @alyx

@dcc @Godsend @alyx I didn't actually read what the meme said, so I don't know what our discussion is

@BasedLunatic @Godsend @alyx Hard to guess you did not lol.
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@dcc @Godsend @alyx I will just add this, the ideological difference in how China and US are is minimal. Both want domination. So there's no ideology difference other than rigged US elections vs China communist party

@BasedLunatic Don't agree with this totally, but I want to comment that this makes Russia's "We know we are weird, but leave us the fuqq alone or we will kill you" 's ideology far more appealing.

Russia is that gun on that shelf you label "the peacemaker". I mean it. Ukraine was on the border of the USA (like Cuba) or China (like Hong Kong) and did that shite to those superpowers, they wouldnt even exist. Ukraine would be Iraq'd post Saddam.

As brutal as they can be, Russia has been really patient and levelheaded with Ukraine since 2014.



@dcc @alyx

@Godsend @alyx @dcc yes, Putin is known to be thinking many moves ahead. He wants the countries outside empire to support him, if he destroyed Ukraine they would give him the shoulder

@Godsend @BasedLunatic @dcc
>some people manage to have businesses if they hide well enough from the government, so it's a capitalist system
No. This is a 80 IQ take. Go cope in China if you love the place that much. I'm sure they'll love you.

@alyx I don't love China, I am just being fair. Too many Westerners go to China and make money in manufacturing. It's an easier place to do business in some respects. You sell your soul when it comes to data privacy and IT innovations though.

Your whole conception was an 80 IQ take, GTFOH. @BasedLunatic @dcc

@Godsend @alyx @dcc I don’t love China either, but I see the strengths in manufacturing and their massive industrial base. They got millions and millions people cities were whole city is about industrial manufacturing, all kinds of products. A lot of foreigners settle in those cities, set up a company, instant success

@BasedLunatic You know how hard it is in Canada to have a prototype, and get funding and manufacturing plant permits to build your gadget?

Jeez.

I heard the USA is easier, but not as easy has China.

The problem with China is data sovereignty and national security laws. Chinese people are for the most part a-OK, but that government is a mafia.

@alyx @dcc

@dcc
>real capitalism has never been tried before
@BasedLunatic @Godsend @alyx

@adiz @BasedLunatic @Godsend @alyx Has been and worked*

@adiz @Godsend @dcc @alyx we are living it now, the degeneration last stage where planes drop from sky and politicians have sex parties on islands

@adiz @Godsend @alyx @dcc just to be clear I am not complaining I have a good life, but due to Scandinavian model of capitalism

@BasedLunatic Jantelagen? Pass @adiz @alyx @dcc

@BasedLunatic Edit: Janteloven (clearly I am not Scandinavian) @adiz @alyx @dcc

@Godsend @adiz @alyx @dcc I am free from that in Spain, if I had to back to Norway my life would be over

@BasedLunatic For reference to others:

@adiz @alyx @dcc
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@Godsend @adiz @alyx @dcc I may not be the optimal person to describe Norwegian society, even though janteloven was a thing most of 90s 80s 70s today Norway is mostly a completely materialistic country with great living standards and infrastructure. Everything is clean modern, and all people do is travel for holidays around Europe, buy a lot of stuff to fill the void while living in Norway, and that’s mostly it. People are also pretty kind. Take into account I left in 2010 just before the west really became modern

@BasedLunatic Never met a Norwegian who was poorly behaved. @adiz @alyx @dcc

@BasedLunatic @Godsend @adiz @alyx @dcc if you would consult the RAND Corporation's extensively researched "Don't Bang Norway" (published under some PUA's name as cover), you'll see that Jante Law is still relevant enough that the researcher found ultimately more enjoyment in arguing with Norwegian women, pissing them off, and going home alone, than he found in seducing them. He cries throughout the book about that damned cockblocking Jante Law.

@apropos @Godsend @dcc @alyx @adiz yes, we talked about this before. But now Norwegian girls watches Netflix. This is mostly for women my age, I am 42. Maybe even a little older than that

@BasedLunatic @dcc
>google is basically owned by intelligence service
Is that why it's promoting Chinese propaganda on YouTube? Is that why they had plans to develop a censored search engine for the Chinese market?

@BasedLunatic
>using Grok instead of using your own brain, and actually searching for yourself.
Bravo. I knew this day would come.
Here's a hint for you. China TRIED going capitalist and free, back in early 2000s. But after Xi JinPooh, everything reversed course. These days China is about as locked down as it was during Mao. You can't talk about capitalism when literally every big corporation is mandated to have CCP members at its leadership, so they can steer operations.

There is no free capitalism. It's a state planned economy. And one that is failing fast.
I mentioned the electric vehicle subsidies earlier. That's part of state planning. They also had state planned electric vehicle renting. Go see how that turned out, with cars abandoned in massive parking lots because there was no market demand for it. They also had state planned bike rentals. Same story. There are mountains of fully functional trashed bikes because there was no free market demand, just communist planned economy. They literally have state planned ghost towns, not just buildings, entire towns that were build by government decree, not because there was real market need or demand.

You can't claim China's economy is capitalistic when you have project after project that isn't driven by market economics, but by the whim of CCP or Xi JinPooh himself.

Oh, and let's not forget the disappearance of their own "tech mongols" without a trace. Definitely the mark of capitalism, and not communist meddling when the state doesn't like someone. /sarcasm

@alyx China may be described as authoritarian capitalist.
But how they system is made up it's clear from what scholars says and economists says in consensus the system has a capitalist function.
" China's economic system is a complex and often debated topic. While the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) officially describes it as a "socialist market economy with Chinese characteristics," many scholars and economists consider it to have significant capitalist features.
Here's a breakdown of why it's a mixed picture:
Elements that resemble capitalism:
* Market forces: A large portion of the economy operates on market principles, with supply and demand influencing prices and production.
* Private enterprise: There's a thriving private sector that contributes significantly to GDP, employment, and innovation. Many large and successful Chinese companies are privately owned.
* Foreign investment: China has a high degree of openness to foreign businesses and actively encourages foreign direct investment.
* Stock markets and financial markets: These exist and allow for private share ownership, which is a key characteristic of capitalist economies.
* Profit motive: Both state-owned and private enterprises operate with a strong emphasis on profitability.
* Integration into the global economy: China is a major player in international trade, a member of the WTO, and its firms compete globally.
Elements that retain socialist/state control:
* Dominant role of the state: The government, through the CCP, maintains significant control and influence over the economy. It sets overall economic direction, implements industrial policies, and guides development through five-year plans.
* State-owned enterprises (SOEs): While their proportion of overall industrial capacity has declined, SOEs still dominate strategic sectors like banking, energy, and telecommunications. Many large and successful Chinese companies are still state-owned or have close ties to the government.
* Land ownership: All land in China is technically owned by the state or collectives.
* State direction: The state can direct and guide major aspects of the economy, including both state and private sectors.
* Financial repression: The government has historically kept interest rates low, effectively providing cheap capital for state-favored industries and projects.
Different interpretations:
Due to this mix, different terms are used to describe China's system:
* Socialist market economy: The official term used by the CCP.
* State capitalism: Many scholars argue that the extensive state control and ownership, even within a market framework, make it a form of state capitalism.
* Authoritarian capitalism: This term highlights the combination of capitalist economic practices with an authoritarian political system.
In essence, China has adopted many features of a market economy and capitalism to drive its remarkable economic growth and lift a large portion of its population out of poverty. However, it has done so while maintaining the political control of the Communist Party and a significant degree of state involvement and ownership, distinguishing it from traditional Western capitalist systems."

@alyx I don't understand why this obsession with not accepting the capitalist aspect of Chinese economy. It may be authoritarian capitalist. But I don't understand why you can't accept reality of it having a certain capitalist aspect. Really strange

@BasedLunatic
Because you are a MORON of the highest order. What you're doing RIGHT NOW is denying that all of communist Eastern Europe were real communism, and we were just normal capitalist nations back before the 90s. You are twisting history and reality to an insane degree.

You think there weren't stores and companies in communist Romania? That we didn't participate in international trade? That we didn't have rich business owners? This is the reality of communism, in that you can easily spread a little propaganda and pretend it was actually capitalistic. But it never is. As soon as you look deep down, you start seeing the horror, including in China.

What you're doing is nothing more than denying the horror Eastern Europe was put through via soviet communism.

So kindly, either go inform yourself and reassess your position, or sincerely go kill yourself for being this fucking stupid.

@alyx since you unfollowed me over China, this must be a sensitive issue for you, lol. Since you are from eastern Europe. On the other hand if you cared about suffering of people, you wouldn't be a zionist Israel supporter. So I can't take you seriously

@BasedLunatic
Yes, minimizing murderous dictatorships is a sensitive issue to me. I also have an issue with Nazism and people who make belief fascism is good. And gee, I wonder why I'd support Jews and Israel over the murderous political/religious ideology known as Islam. Why in the world would I support a nation of Jews whom others would gladly genocide... gee, I wonder. Why in the world would I not defend Islamic maniacs who have also invaded my country in its history... gee... I don't know. Maybe because I seek my own survival and the survival of my people too. Maybe because Communism, Nazism and Islam, all fucked over my country in different periods of its history.
So yeah, Jews are ok in my book, cause they're a nation like so many other in the world, not an unified ideology that seeks to fuck over the world.

@BasedLunatic
More AI answers then? Care to actually search real information for yourself?
> Market forces: A large portion of the economy operates on market principles, with supply and demand influencing prices and production.
I literally just debunked this. You can't talk about supply and demand when literally Xi JinPooh decides that he wants China to be known for technology X (these days it's AI and 5G), pushes insane subsidies, and demands the market pretend to do AI and 5G, so they can make propaganda with how "China is top AI and 5G expertise".

>Private enterprise: There's a thriving private sector that contributes significantly to GDP, employment, and innovation
How can you call it private sector when every corporation is demanded to have CCP officials in their leadership? Who get to have control over the companies?

>Profit motive: Both state-owned and private enterprises operate with a strong emphasis on profitability.
Again false. The incentive for corporations is government subsidies. They don't make a profit from selling to people. They make a "profit" because the government subsidizes stuff.

Did you even read the shit you posted? You literally even have arguments there that clear go against China being capitalistic.
>Land ownership: All land in China is technically owned by the state or collectives.
That's a communist feature, not a capitalist one.
>State direction: The state can direct and guide major aspects of the economy, including both state and private sectors.
Communist feature.

Other examples in there are literally irrelevant. A communist nation can have outside investments,
can take part in international trade, probably can have a stock market of sorts too.