@matrix definite meme
@matrix youcubed.org/
There could actually be something to this and I would be all for it, but I also picture myself in that classroom environment and imagining being bored to tears because I could come up with the right answer without group activities or physical representations of abstract concepts.
There could actually be something to this and I would be all for it, but I also picture myself in that classroom environment and imagining being bored to tears because I could come up with the right answer without group activities or physical representations of abstract concepts.
@dew_the_dew From my observations and interactions with Americans it's quite clear that US education is fucked, however I don't see how this will fix anything.
@matrix If you watch the video they are making triangles with ropes (in groups of 3-5 everyone holding a node) or building larger cubes out of sugar cubes to (I assume) learn square and cube functions. Like, that's great, but obviously if these kids need tangible models and group work to handle abstract concepts, obviously they aren't so hot at abstract concepts to begin with. What is worrisome to me is not that 'oh no the darkies will learn math and take us over' so much as that will become the one-size-fits-all new model that will just hold back the kids who actually can learn this stuff at a much faster rate. I guess that's always been the concern with American education. We spend more money on teaching retards crayons than actually moving the bright ones along faster. FWIW I was in most of the 'gifted' programs growing up and the POZ and filler material is still there, but you move slightly faster. By the time I was in high school all the kids who were capable of actively learning on their own were pwning the school networks even though the school offered only the most remedial programming classes. The bureaucratic education model just breaks down completely at the far right tail of the bell curve, and the solution is for some sort of mentorship program but those are expensive vs. someone who can teach crayons to retards and the system gets just about as much money from pushing a retard through the system as it does graduating someone who is not being pushed to their full potential.
That was a lot of words.
That was a lot of words.
@dew_the_dew @matrix tangible learning sounds retarded, i get it for kindergarten when youre counting money but past that its pointless
math *is* commonly taught at a too highly-abstracted level, but that doesnt mean that rope is gonna help people understand shit better. people want reasons to learn shit, if they think something is useless then they wont learn it, simple as that
math *is* commonly taught at a too highly-abstracted level, but that doesnt mean that rope is gonna help people understand shit better. people want reasons to learn shit, if they think something is useless then they wont learn it, simple as that
@matrix
Hi!
In one of the "affluent" school districts, the special ed school was an amalgamation of spectrum disorders, psychopaths, stoners, and the rest of the school-to-prison pipeline.
We were not taught any math past algebra 2. History class every year was revolutionary war, civil war, world war 2. Every. Year.
I got completely fucked out of an education.
@dew_the_dew
@r000t @matrix Yeah I got that too.
6th grade bio: learn the organelles of a cell 'haha endoplasmic reticulum funny name.'
10th grade bio: learn the organelles of a cell 'haha endoplasmic reticulum funny name.'
I legit don't even know why I even know what an endoplasmic reticulum is. Or a mitochondria. Or a vesicle. Or a semipermeable lipid membrane.
3rd grade spanish: learn colors, numbers, a few vocab words and a couple of tenses
7th grade spanish: learn colors, numbers, the same smattering of vocab words and a couple of tenses
i switched to latin in high school because i figured i would never be expected to speak it, but anyway I learned more practical spanish working in kitchens with illegals than I ever did in school.
6th grade bio: learn the organelles of a cell 'haha endoplasmic reticulum funny name.'
10th grade bio: learn the organelles of a cell 'haha endoplasmic reticulum funny name.'
I legit don't even know why I even know what an endoplasmic reticulum is. Or a mitochondria. Or a vesicle. Or a semipermeable lipid membrane.
3rd grade spanish: learn colors, numbers, a few vocab words and a couple of tenses
7th grade spanish: learn colors, numbers, the same smattering of vocab words and a couple of tenses
i switched to latin in high school because i figured i would never be expected to speak it, but anyway I learned more practical spanish working in kitchens with illegals than I ever did in school.
@dew_the_dew @matrix
There literally is nothing to this.
"Modern teaching methods" are ridiculously stupid, if you want to teach someone about mathematics have them sit down and listen and then make then do exercises. If they can't take it, don't teach them mathematics, most people will never in their life need to know what a derivative is, forcing it down their throats hurts everyone involved.
Not like anybody is teaching mathematics anyway, rather they are teaching a vague imitation where you have to tease out information from incredibly stupid ""real world problems"" and then apply memorized rules until you get to "the solution".
There literally is nothing to this.
"Modern teaching methods" are ridiculously stupid, if you want to teach someone about mathematics have them sit down and listen and then make then do exercises. If they can't take it, don't teach them mathematics, most people will never in their life need to know what a derivative is, forcing it down their throats hurts everyone involved.
Not like anybody is teaching mathematics anyway, rather they are teaching a vague imitation where you have to tease out information from incredibly stupid ""real world problems"" and then apply memorized rules until you get to "the solution".
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @matrix
>most people will never in their life need to know what a derivative is, forcing it down their throats hurts everyone involved.
very true but it creates more teacher jobs which is the real goal
>most people will never in their life need to know what a derivative is, forcing it down their throats hurts everyone involved.
very true but it creates more teacher jobs which is the real goal
@dew_the_dew @matrix
>very true but it creates more teacher jobs which is the real goal
Yes, but it is not like these teachers really understand the subject either, which is probably the reason why mathematics as "rule based formula rewriting" is so common.
School is literally just occupation therapy for kids, sure, they should learn to read, write and do basic arithmetic, but after that you really need to separate those who will go into "academics" and those who don't. My country has/had a system like this, but it is already extremely weak on that regard...
>very true but it creates more teacher jobs which is the real goal
Yes, but it is not like these teachers really understand the subject either, which is probably the reason why mathematics as "rule based formula rewriting" is so common.
School is literally just occupation therapy for kids, sure, they should learn to read, write and do basic arithmetic, but after that you really need to separate those who will go into "academics" and those who don't. My country has/had a system like this, but it is already extremely weak on that regard...
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @matrix seriously by 8th grade or so you have a pretty good idea who is going to be a landscaper and who is going to be an engineer. the 'rule based formula rewriting' unfortunately recapitulates in other areas that tend towards bureaucracy, and for how destructive that can be I'm going to point out the absolute insanity that has become modern medicine. The system doesn't need people who can think, it needs debtors who can follow simple instructions.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @dew_the_dew @matrix
> most people will never in their life need to know what a derivative is, forcing it down their throats hurts everyone involved.
This advice is bad and you should feel bad
Derivatives are a vital part of understanding the modern world.
You shouldn't have to force it down anyone's throat, either - if adults around them actually gave a shit about using their brains kids will learn this stuff naturally.
> most people will never in their life need to know what a derivative is, forcing it down their throats hurts everyone involved.
This advice is bad and you should feel bad
Derivatives are a vital part of understanding the modern world.
You shouldn't have to force it down anyone's throat, either - if adults around them actually gave a shit about using their brains kids will learn this stuff naturally.
@jeffcliff @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @dew_the_dew Even Wikipedia gives you an example in the first paragraph of how important derivatives are: "For example, the derivative of the position of a moving object with respect to time is the object's velocity: this measures how quickly the position of the object changes when time advances."
@matrix @jeffcliff @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @dew_the_dew >hey pal, don't you think you're driving way too fast?
>idk, let me calculate the derivative of the position of this car with respect to the time it takes to move a certain distance. Here, take the wheel while I'm at it
Real world problems
>idk, let me calculate the derivative of the position of this car with respect to the time it takes to move a certain distance. Here, take the wheel while I'm at it
Real world problems
@kerosene @matrix @dew_the_dew @servant_of_the_anime_avatars now try to make a climate model that tells you that it's ok to drive that car
@kerosene @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @dew_the_dew @jeffcliff "Look ma, I'm solving real world problems"
@matrix @jeffcliff @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @dew_the_dew They teach you a rudimentary form of derivatives in high school physics, just without calling them derivatives because people freeze up when you start using technical math terms.
A lot of the problem with math is while yes, there are a lot of people that seriously struggle to think in terms of abstractions, they do a poor job of teaching it to those that can. My brother, not exactly a slow guy, was struggling with algebra in high school. I told him to look at a letter like a question mark or a blank and it was like something clicked in his head. There are ways to make it more accessible without dumbing it down. That and they need to stop talking about the stigma, since I think the stigma math has is what intimidates people as much as anything.
A lot of the problem with math is while yes, there are a lot of people that seriously struggle to think in terms of abstractions, they do a poor job of teaching it to those that can. My brother, not exactly a slow guy, was struggling with algebra in high school. I told him to look at a letter like a question mark or a blank and it was like something clicked in his head. There are ways to make it more accessible without dumbing it down. That and they need to stop talking about the stigma, since I think the stigma math has is what intimidates people as much as anything.
@mrsaturday @matrix @dew_the_dew @jeffcliff
>they do a poor job of teaching it to those that can
My guess is that the teachers don't get it either, at least my experience is that for a long time the teachers I had were anything but mathematically minded.
And you can't teach something if you don't have a deep understanding of it.
>they do a poor job of teaching it to those that can
My guess is that the teachers don't get it either, at least my experience is that for a long time the teachers I had were anything but mathematically minded.
And you can't teach something if you don't have a deep understanding of it.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @matrix @jeffcliff @mrsaturday if you have a deep understanding of it you can do jobs that command a much better salary.
@dew_the_dew @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @matrix @mrsaturday salary is only *partially* related to mathematical skill
and you can model this using derivatives
and you can model this using derivatives
@jeffcliff @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @mrsaturday Why the fuck do you seem to think we are attacking the idea of learning calculus? What we are saying is that most people aren't that bright and are never going to use it in any practical application and it's a waste of time and resources trying to force them to learn it.
@dew_the_dew @matrix @mrsaturday @servant_of_the_anime_avatars It's not. I normal, and even slower teach kids calculus, and if they can learn it so can normal people
It's not a waste of time, either - certainly no more than any of the other myriad ways most people have to waste time
It's not a waste of time, either - certainly no more than any of the other myriad ways most people have to waste time
@jeffcliff @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @mrsaturday I don't even know who that is and I honestly don't care, also you still haven't stopped being fat and eating shit.
@jeffcliff @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @mrsaturday no, I don't care. Go be a fat ass munching libtard somewhere else.
@jeffcliff @matrix @dew_the_dew
>Derivatives are a vital part of understanding the modern world.
But people who (try to) understand the world around them are always already in the minority. Most people really couldn't care less.
And I think it is quite cruel to expect otherwise, I know a lot of people who will go through their entire lives without ever thinking about what a derivative is, people who do serious and important work, harming themselves (slowly or quickly) in the process and having learned skills they (and many others) consider extremely important. Telling them that they also need to keep themselves informed about the details of the world we live in is, at best, condescending.
Nobody will ever learn everything and what some consider vital information, might be entirely useless to others. Most people will never be Mathematicians and that is fine.
>Derivatives are a vital part of understanding the modern world.
But people who (try to) understand the world around them are always already in the minority. Most people really couldn't care less.
And I think it is quite cruel to expect otherwise, I know a lot of people who will go through their entire lives without ever thinking about what a derivative is, people who do serious and important work, harming themselves (slowly or quickly) in the process and having learned skills they (and many others) consider extremely important. Telling them that they also need to keep themselves informed about the details of the world we live in is, at best, condescending.
Nobody will ever learn everything and what some consider vital information, might be entirely useless to others. Most people will never be Mathematicians and that is fine.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @dew_the_dew @matrix this is elitist bullshit
people *can* learn about the world around them, given the chance
and we now have supercomputers in everyone's pocket that allow free access to the world's best information resources that have ever been collected
'serious' work is the work that normal people do, day to day and is not restricted to some kind of vanguard elite
people *can* learn about the world around them, given the chance
and we now have supercomputers in everyone's pocket that allow free access to the world's best information resources that have ever been collected
'serious' work is the work that normal people do, day to day and is not restricted to some kind of vanguard elite
@jeffcliff @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars plumbing is serious work. agriculture is serious work. cutting down trees is serious work.
>and we now have supercomputers in everyone's pocket that allow free access to the world's best information resources that have ever been collected
that are mostly used for pornography and narcissistic social signaling. no one learns algebra or reads Aristotle on their sail foams.
>and we now have supercomputers in everyone's pocket that allow free access to the world's best information resources that have ever been collected
that are mostly used for pornography and narcissistic social signaling. no one learns algebra or reads Aristotle on their sail foams.
@dew_the_dew @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars aristotle is a good example of what can go wrong when you don't have calculus
people *shouldn't* be learning 'aristotle' - he was wrong about pretty much everything because of this
people *shouldn't* be learning 'aristotle' - he was wrong about pretty much everything because of this
@jeffcliff @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars you're right, obviously these kids aren't learning calculus because they read Aristotle and decided it was dumb.
@jeffcliff @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @dew_the_dew @matrix >and we now have supercomputers in everyone's pocket that allow free access to the world's best information resources that have ever been collected
I recently discovered that VLC for Android will slow video down to 0.25x speed which is great for porn. Just wish it could do frame interpolation as well to make it smoother.
I recently discovered that VLC for Android will slow video down to 0.25x speed which is great for porn. Just wish it could do frame interpolation as well to make it smoother.
@jeffcliff @matrix @dew_the_dew
>this is elitist bullshit
It really is the opposite. A friend of mine works as an EMT, which is a *terrible* job, disastrous working hours, back ruining work, dealing with awful situations. I doubt that there is *anything* in the world which could get him to care about abstract mathematics and that is fine, because what he is doing is almost certainly more valuable to society then what "academics" like me do.
>people *can* learn about the world around them, given the chance
Yes. EXACTLY. The chances people get are basically *infinite*, if they wanted to learn, then a million gates are open to them, whenever they want, wherever they want. But they don't want to, which, to a certain extent, is a choice we have to respect.
>'serious' work is the work that normal people do, day to day and is not restricted to some kind of vanguard elite
Exactly and those people don't need to know about derivatives and they don't want to. They do their jobs perfectly fine without them.
>this is elitist bullshit
It really is the opposite. A friend of mine works as an EMT, which is a *terrible* job, disastrous working hours, back ruining work, dealing with awful situations. I doubt that there is *anything* in the world which could get him to care about abstract mathematics and that is fine, because what he is doing is almost certainly more valuable to society then what "academics" like me do.
>people *can* learn about the world around them, given the chance
Yes. EXACTLY. The chances people get are basically *infinite*, if they wanted to learn, then a million gates are open to them, whenever they want, wherever they want. But they don't want to, which, to a certain extent, is a choice we have to respect.
>'serious' work is the work that normal people do, day to day and is not restricted to some kind of vanguard elite
Exactly and those people don't need to know about derivatives and they don't want to. They do their jobs perfectly fine without them.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @dew_the_dew @matrix Except they aren't doing 'perfectly fine'. Your EMT friend doesn't sound like he's doing fine, either. There's a lot of critical problems that require a massive response and we aren't going to solve them without a lot more public education including but not limited to a broader understanding of dynamic systems
@jeffcliff @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars Your implication of how you want to improve the state of humanity and save the world with a broader understanding of dynamic systems would carry a lot more weight (kek) if you could maintain a healthy BMI.
@jeffcliff @matrix @dew_the_dew
>Your EMT friend doesn't sound like he's doing fine
What do you mean?
*Someone* has to get up at 3am to keep alive the idiot who slipped on ice during his walk in the night and cracked his head. And of course that is a shitty job, but he is doing fine in life.
>public education
You can only educate people who want to be educated. Most people do not want to learn about dynamical systems, I certainly do, but I will not try to force that on those who do not.
I think it is also pretty cruel to force the burden of saving the world onto those who are already doing their part in society.
>Your EMT friend doesn't sound like he's doing fine
What do you mean?
*Someone* has to get up at 3am to keep alive the idiot who slipped on ice during his walk in the night and cracked his head. And of course that is a shitty job, but he is doing fine in life.
>public education
You can only educate people who want to be educated. Most people do not want to learn about dynamical systems, I certainly do, but I will not try to force that on those who do not.
I think it is also pretty cruel to force the burden of saving the world onto those who are already doing their part in society.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @matrix @jeffcliff The dude who you are chatting with is fat enough to need some of the special medical lifting devices made for fat people so that EMTs don't ruin their backs.
@dew_the_dew @servant_of_the_anime_avatars @jeffcliff @matrix They will have to cut a hole in the wall to get him out since the doors aren't wide enough.
@Monsignor_DickFace @jeffcliff @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars I don't think he's at my 600lb life deathfat stage yet but a BMI of 34 suggests he will become a liquidity pool for the healthcare system before dying in his early 50s.
@servant_of_the_anime_avatars @dew_the_dew @matrix
It doesn't *have* to be a shitty job, or at least as shitty.
And the difference between him and a doctor is *gasp* more education, and access to tools (which is justifiable with *gasp* more education). The reason we have a role in society that we can all recognize as "EMT" is due to the limited number of people who, among other things, understand calculus
There's no reason why given access to more education, including but not limited to more math, he can't handle more responsibility currently shouldered by doctors and nurses.
You don't have to *force* people to learn these things. The point is: they can be more valuable, more productive with them.
As far as shifting the burden of saving the world? Tough shit. The world needs saving, and we have to push with the cock we've got.
It doesn't *have* to be a shitty job, or at least as shitty.
And the difference between him and a doctor is *gasp* more education, and access to tools (which is justifiable with *gasp* more education). The reason we have a role in society that we can all recognize as "EMT" is due to the limited number of people who, among other things, understand calculus
There's no reason why given access to more education, including but not limited to more math, he can't handle more responsibility currently shouldered by doctors and nurses.
You don't have to *force* people to learn these things. The point is: they can be more valuable, more productive with them.
As far as shifting the burden of saving the world? Tough shit. The world needs saving, and we have to push with the cock we've got.
@jeffcliff @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars You make the classic leftist blunder of mistaking certification for education. Also if everyone gets more education and becomes a Dr who will ride in the ambulance? I don't really know what more I expect from you at this point. Worry about getting to a healthy BMI and not engaging in disgusting sodomite ass eating instead of pontificating about saving the world by teaching niggers calculus.
@dew_the_dew @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars What keeps that from happening? Certification regimes can be modified to take more knowledge into account on the side of EMTs
200 years ago there was no EMTs. In 200 years there will be no EMTs.
Someone's gotta teach them, and that someone is me.
200 years ago there was no EMTs. In 200 years there will be no EMTs.
Someone's gotta teach them, and that someone is me.
@jeffcliff @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars I'm sorry I really don't understand....is the job performance of EMT's less than satisfactory? And you are going to teach them how to do their jobs better?
@dew_the_dew @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars
> And you are going to teach them how to do their jobs better
I already have impacted how EMTs do their job, here in a big way. It's only getting better from here the further into evidence based medicine we go.
> And you are going to teach them how to do their jobs better
I already have impacted how EMTs do their job, here in a big way. It's only getting better from here the further into evidence based medicine we go.
@dew_the_dew @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars You don't see EMTs without handheld, or ambulance computers anymore. The field has already begun to be eaten by software.
@jeffcliff @matrix @servant_of_the_anime_avatars you live in a fantasy world where it's okay to be fat and eat ass.
@matrix
If you tell them they can do math, they will believe it, and the universe will form aroind the fact.
It's all in the book "The secret".