Gonna mess with id tech 4 soon btw I wanna make a 00s style fps or similar before gaming got bad
@PurpCat Come to think of it why don't devs just build on the FOSS id tech engines in this day and age? There should be plenty of docs and support by now and it runs everywhere without the bloat of stuff like Unity, UE, etc. (most of which is completely unneeded for smaller projects)
@tadano It's the GPL, there's plenty of docs from Doom 3 era stuff but not as much as the more popular engines of the 00s like UE2 or Source but the GPL license puts off people who don't "get" the license or who want to make console shit (see the ScummVM Wii lawsuit and it's outcome).
But most of the troonslop "retro" game devs are using Unity with faux PS1 graphics that struggle to run on a C2D.
But most of the troonslop "retro" game devs are using Unity with faux PS1 graphics that struggle to run on a C2D.
@tadano @xianc78 Well there's a problem: it's that it's harder to make something that looks like a 6th gen/Source Engine game over say, a PS1 slop game.
The core of the faux PS1 aesthetic is over mimicking a certain game: Mega Man Legends. This is because the game did "toony" style 3d, was really popular with Tumblr circles, and is easy to mimic.
There were other PS1 games with similar artstyles, like Tail Concerto too.
Now imagine the effort it takes to make a Doom 3 style game for the average low-effort user influenced by the Tumblr generation.
The core of the faux PS1 aesthetic is over mimicking a certain game: Mega Man Legends. This is because the game did "toony" style 3d, was really popular with Tumblr circles, and is easy to mimic.
There were other PS1 games with similar artstyles, like Tail Concerto too.
Now imagine the effort it takes to make a Doom 3 style game for the average low-effort user influenced by the Tumblr generation.
@tadano @xianc78 Now compare this, with how much effort it is to mimic say a higher poly game from the PS2/Xbox era, especially a later game or higher budget game like RE4, Doom 3, HL2, Far Cry, Need for Speed, Burnout 3, any UE2 game, etc.
Compare something like Postal 2 with Deus Ex: IW or Splinter Cell, on the same engine, or Doom 3 on the ID Tech 4 engine. That's at the point where you need more talent or artistic direction to make something solid. The most I could see these games looking like is Postal 2 with it's "trailer park game" or "slav mod" aesthetic.
Compare something like Postal 2 with Deus Ex: IW or Splinter Cell, on the same engine, or Doom 3 on the ID Tech 4 engine. That's at the point where you need more talent or artistic direction to make something solid. The most I could see these games looking like is Postal 2 with it's "trailer park game" or "slav mod" aesthetic.
@xianc78 @tadano The only problem is that you can only use Source as long as valve licenses it to you. In the older days of Valve, the engine was more popular and many devs could obtain a license (even Respawn, who would heavily modify it like how the same guys at IW modified Quake 3 into their own engine).
Part of the problem is that as this Reddit post shows, Valve's licensing department seems to be MIA and users there seem to suggest the best way to obtain a license is to make mods for it first or have "something to show":
https://old.reddit.com/r/SourceEngine/comments/1c68m6j/is_there_even_anyone_left_at_valves_licenseing/
Another post says why: the main guy at Valve in charge of this passed away years ago and so now it's a matter of "I'll ask X about it":
https://old.reddit.com/r/SourceEngine/comments/8mssei/comment/dzq3774/
This is as opposed to modern engines which have very clear terms for small devs, like UE5 and Unity (which you can see why they're the engines of choice) or FOSS stuff like Godot or Monogame (more of a framework tbh).
Also good luck getting a UE2/3 license, I know it got weird when Epic discontinued UDK downloads for that even and they really want people to use the latest UE now. I've heard that there's license encumberment with those engines possibly too due to the use of third party components.
ID Tech 4? ID Software could get shut down by Bethesda/MSFT tomorrow and you could still use it as long as you respect the GPL (so no console releases ever, but consoles are dying). It's the same shit with the Torque engine, where GarageGames is defunct and yet commercial games still use it because of the MIT license.
Part of the problem is that as this Reddit post shows, Valve's licensing department seems to be MIA and users there seem to suggest the best way to obtain a license is to make mods for it first or have "something to show":
https://old.reddit.com/r/SourceEngine/comments/1c68m6j/is_there_even_anyone_left_at_valves_licenseing/
Another post says why: the main guy at Valve in charge of this passed away years ago and so now it's a matter of "I'll ask X about it":
https://old.reddit.com/r/SourceEngine/comments/8mssei/comment/dzq3774/
This is as opposed to modern engines which have very clear terms for small devs, like UE5 and Unity (which you can see why they're the engines of choice) or FOSS stuff like Godot or Monogame (more of a framework tbh).
Also good luck getting a UE2/3 license, I know it got weird when Epic discontinued UDK downloads for that even and they really want people to use the latest UE now. I've heard that there's license encumberment with those engines possibly too due to the use of third party components.
ID Tech 4? ID Software could get shut down by Bethesda/MSFT tomorrow and you could still use it as long as you respect the GPL (so no console releases ever, but consoles are dying). It's the same shit with the Torque engine, where GarageGames is defunct and yet commercial games still use it because of the MIT license.
@xianc78 @tadano Also if you want one of the reasons ID Tech 4 looked so distinct, it has to do with the now infamous and expired Carmack's Reverse algorithm (which was patched back into dhewm3 after being stripped out of the GPL Doom 3 port due to infamous software patent bullshit).
https://patents.google.com/patent/US6384822B1/en
Instead of being "baked" lighting, it looked great on low-end hardware of the 00s. In fact, shadows of 00s games were definitely not baked and really "stood out" and that's an aesthetic I truly appreciate.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US6384822B1/en
Instead of being "baked" lighting, it looked great on low-end hardware of the 00s. In fact, shadows of 00s games were definitely not baked and really "stood out" and that's an aesthetic I truly appreciate.
@PurpCat @tadano Open Game Art has a few base models that don't look out of place for an OG Xbox game. They could probably work with id Tech 4. This one is licensed under the CC-BY.
https://opengameart.org/content/human-basaemeshes
Unfortunately, most of the other base models go for the low-poly aesthetic.
Until the FOSS release of ID Tech 4 and people coming up with alternatives to the encumbered models (there's someone on moddb trying to make public domain assets for the base engine to replace this btw), the only way to really make a standalone game was you'd buy a license.
This is why Prey and Quake 4 look like Doom 3 in a way but also have their own distinct art direction, especially as both games revolved around indoor corridors with some outdoor areas. As time went on, devs invested in the engine made heavy engine modifications leading to games like ET: QW, Wolfenstein 2k9, and Brink looking nothing like Doom 3.
Much of the engine "look" has to do with the tech of it, and the ID Tech 4 engine excelled at dark indoor/night environments with lighting casting distinct shadows, like how some UE2 games had that "look" (Bioshock, Deus Ex: IW, Splinter Cell, and more).