@cassidyclown @icedquinn
If consent was all that mattered, then every crime would be rape. Randomly punching someone would be rape. But it's not. What defines rape alongside consent, is at least one party trying to receive sexual pleasure either directly, or getting pleasure through forcing someone else to experience sexual pleasure (aka orgasm).

@alyx @icedquinn the difference between rape and punching someone without consent is sexual penetration lmao not pleasure. If you joylessly stick your soft dick in an unwilling woman with no intention of giving her pleasure it's still rape lol.

@cassidyclown @icedquinn
Not all rape involves sexual penetration.

@alyx @icedquinn not all sexual assault involves penetration - but legally in most countries, all rape does

@cassidyclown @icedquinn
So then you're on the side of women can't rape men? You do realize that legal definitions of rape all highly flawed.

@alyx @cassidyclown

@icedquinn @cassidyclown
I honestly completely forgot this was your thread

@alyx @icedquinn there's still penetration involved in women raping men. It's forced penetration- just forced by the woman rather than the man.

@cassidyclown @icedquinn
But women aren't penetrating men, so by your definition not rape.

@alyx @icedquinn > the difference between rape and punching someone without consent is sexual penetration lmao not pleasure.

lmao i didn't say the perpetrator had to be the one doing the penetrating. There is forced penetration occurring in woman on man rape - that being the woman is forcing the man to penetrate her (assuming she's not sticking a dildo in his ass)

@cassidyclown @icedquinn
Hint: that's called forced enveloping. Saying "force penetration" implies that the person being penetrated is the one being forced into it. Forcing someone else to penetrate you is not forced penetration.

@alyx @cassidyclown @icedquinn wat

@cassidyclown @icedquinn
Here's something else that I'm wondering right now. You said:

>the difference between rape and punching someone without consent is sexual penetration

What makes a certain penetration sexual? If I stick my finger in your ear, without consent, that's forced penetration. But it's not sexual. But can it be? What if I'm some strange kind of pervert that derives pleasure from that?

@alyx @cassidyclown in texas law its defined by insertion in a sexual cavity regardless of the instrument used

@icedquinn @cassidyclown
Rape laws are inherently stupid and incomplete though. People get sexual pleasure through a LOT of stuff not covered by "the law". By that definition, putting my penis in your ear wouldn't be sexual either. It's not a sexual cavity.

@alyx @icedquinn @cassidyclown jesus christ

@alyx @cassidyclown the penis is a sexual instrument so it counts

@icedquinn @cassidyclown
What makes a sexual instrument? Can a finger be a sexual instrument?

@alyx @cassidyclown putting your finger in someones mouth or ear is not rape but it might count as simple assault, as does groping boobies.

@icedquinn @cassidyclown
You didn't really answer my question though... what counts as a "sexual instrument"? Do only genitals count? Or can other stuff be sexual instruments too?

@alyx @cassidyclown i don't write the law. pretty sure its anything that goes in to a vagina or butt is rape and putting a penis in anything is also rape

@icedquinn @cassidyclown
Then a finger is also a sexual instrument. I stick my finger in my ass, thus making it a sexual instrument, and then I ear rape you with it.

@alyx @icedquinn This one is sexual under texas law

@cassidyclown @icedquinn

@cassidyclown
But you tell us, o my consent is important...
Cows are consenting to everything when they are in heat.
@alyx @icedquinn

@frank87 @icedquinn @cassidyclown
By our definition of consent, animals wouldn't really qualify for it.
For our version of consent to work, being conscious, self-aware, higher cognitive abilities are basically needed. Maybe we could fit some apes and dolphins into our understanding of consent, but cows... no. don't think so.

@alyx
I agree, the most important point is it's impossible to fit animals into laws governing interpersonal human relationships. Based on our concept of consciousness.
If cows would write laws, rape wouldn't be included. Or sexual assault (or any other kind of assault). They communicate with their horns on their heads.
@icedquinn @cassidyclown

@frank87 @alyx @cassidyclown If snakes wrote the laws you would be very unhappy with the sex codes.

@icedquinn
I don't know about snakes, but I really don't think the sex codes of most insects or spiders would be a good idea.
@alyx @cassidyclown

@frank87 @alyx @cassidyclown hm spider mating isn't too far off in some ways. spooders don't always eat the males either.

spoods have a lot of dance/courtship and if the woman doesn't like it the man gets stabbed. neofeminists would be pretty happy.

snakes though, very rapey.

@icedquinn @frank87 @cassidyclown
Aren't dolphins kinda rapey too, or maybe I'm misremembering.

@alyx
You're correct. Ducks are also very famous for mass raping...
@icedquinn @cassidyclown

@icedquinn
There are a lot of insect species, and most of them don't expect to survive very long after reproduction. Humankind wouldn't survive their sexual habits for very long.
@alyx @cassidyclown