If only Da would join in but that website is a lost fucking cause....i gave up on DA way long time ago when Wix acquire the website.
Also how can you offer NFT / DA "protection" and generated ai art services at the same time??????empty.png
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@siinclaiir they care about artists but not enough to not profit out of them it seems.
To be honest, i think it's the users, the ARTISTS, and not the companies, who are gonna steer the trend to the good way. More people need to join these voices that demand to artists to be respected in the spaces created for them, and even more if such sites already ask money for premium treatement.
Herace Siinclaiir
@siinclaiir@bae.st
Yeah, the artist on DA are passive, cant expect the companies to change. Last time i saw a big uproar was years ago but afterwards people just abandon the site.
@book @siinclaiir If people don't care abour artist, then they don't care about art, they just like "pretty things"
No one buys a cheeseburger because they want the cheeseburger maker to pay rent. They buy cheeseburgers because they want a cheeseburger.
Art isn't different.
@book @siinclaiir If you only care about the cheeseburger you only are hungry
People buy art because they want the art. Not because they care about the artist.
@book @siinclaiir Yeah you can be hungry and any cheesburger would suffice, or you could be more serious about it and decide to have a proper burger prepared by someone who actually knows what it's doing.
Most people unortunately are just hungry and any cheeseburger suffices it.
It's not "unfortunate," it's reality. Your expectation that they want a cheeseburger for anything other than hunger is what's unfortunate.
@book @siinclaiir It's unfortunate because you have 100s Mcdonalds for every good place that sells burgers and then finding a good one is difficult
@book @siinclaiir lel ok go have your mcdonalds then.
@book @siinclaiir I'm trying to tell artists to advocate to people to develop a better taste about stuff and you have been all like "but they won't, they don't care.".
@book @siinclaiir Ok go be a doomer to your corner then
>NOOO YOU CANT LIKE MY DRAWINGS FOR THEIR OWN SAKE! YOU HAVE TO LIKE THEM FOR ME! NOOOO I'M WHAT'S IMPORTANT! ME ME ME!
Thank God for piracy.
@book @siinclaiir Not at all
That's some bullshit. If art requires meta knowledge than art has no inherent value.
@Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @book
Yes, if you only care about the final result then art is meaningless.
The opposite, actually. The final result is actually meaningful: It's tangible, and enjoyable. The "artist" has no meaning or value to anyone.
Skyrim has value to me.
Todd Howard does not, except insofar as he can create Skyrim.
So if I don't know who the artist is than can I not appreciate the art? In you example you already value the artist, and value the art because it's something made by them, not for the art itself. In your example the art doesn't have inherent value.
Hrrrmmm...I guess that is now true with AI Image generation.But before advance AI Image Generation you dont need to worry about the authenticity of an actual human drew it.
Also it was way more easier to tell if someone trace. Even artist can spot something that was traced. But now we live in different times.
Still that doesn't ignore the fact that the artist play a roll, like certain manga artist. People not just like the picture but the artist themself.
I say ZUN is a good example. Despite not the best artist, but you have respect of for him for able to program, make music and draw, despite not as good as other artist.
>I say ZUN is a good example. Despite not the best artist, but you have respect of for him for able to program, make music and draw, despite not as good as other artist.
I have no idea who ZUN is, but I don't have to respect him for mediocrity, there are people who single-handedly do make high production video games, and they deserve the credit that you sound like you're giving to him.
>I have no idea who ZUN is
Wait really? Dang...... well thats a first.image.png
That only applies to kids though. I would never feel that way about someone other than my own kid or someone I love. Why are you loving complete strangers like family? Why are you expecting me to? Why do you frame it with this moral consternation like they are entitled to it?
The final result is the only part that has meaning. A half finished drawing in inherently less valuable than a finished one, and the finished piece can and should be evaluated separate from other considerations.
@Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @book
If people only care about the final result and do not care about the motivations and struggles that are behind it, then it's something that will end up fading over time because it's something that's just "there".
There's this album by Metallica called "St. Anger" that every fan of Metallica likes to hate, and they hate it because to them it sounds awful and very different of what Metallica was doing until them.,
If you are someone who only cares about the final resul the story ends here, the album is shit, discarded, next thing.
But then this documental called "Some Kind of Monster" comes along which is all about how this album was produced, and you end up seeing that there was a lot of struggle, change and internal conflict present in the making of this album, then the album suddenly takes another dimension, you pay more attention to the lyrics and the sounds ad then you see this struggle reflected on the sounds being produced by the band.
The majority of fans still likes to discard the album and they go to the more clinically produced albums because "they sound better", and since they don't really appreciate the band, just what they produce, they fail to see that there's something to appreciate right there.
To me, it became my favourite album of them ever.
>But then this documental called "Some Kind of Monster" comes along which is all about how this album was produced, and you end up seeing that there was a lot of struggle, change and internal conflict present in the making of this album, then the album suddenly takes another dimension, you pay more attention to the lyrics and the sounds ad then you see this struggle reflected on the sounds being produced by the band.
You learned more about the product and it enhanced your enjoyment of the product. It's still the product you are enjoying.
@book @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir
My enjoyment of the product was enhanced beacuse i learned the background about it, it was no longer just about the final product. Otherwise it would have been discarded as another thing.
Paradoxically, the least albums that i like about the band are the ones that were created during the phase of "well, i guess we're big now so we have to keep producing more". That usually have the most classic and commercial hits.
> it was no longer just about the final product. Otherwise it would have been discarded as another thing.
I cannot parse any meaning in this sequence of words.
You care about the product. The song. You like the song.
@book @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir
*sigh* yes dude whatever i only care about the product.
I should write less walls of text if people aren't gonna spend a brain cell trying to understand trhem.
It actually takes a lot of brain cells to cut all of the useless words out of your posts and find the core argumentative claims.
@book @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir That's a nice way of saying "i don't care about what you say lel."
My response is a substantive response to everything substantive you said.
Yeah i saw that a mile ahead, but you have very good solid points.
Implying producing the AIs that generate this art is some trivial task. I guarantee you, it’s way more of an accomplishment to write one of these AIs than it is to produce art at the level they generate. There’s your background on how the art was made.
These artists need to git gud, and I don’t doubt for one second that they will. But only after they’re done whining that their generic anime tiddy “creations” or whatever are now something that can be generated by a fucking computer program.
@NEETzsche @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @book
Yeah but my argument doesn't really touch the engineering part of the technology which i can't really say anything about, i know that coding something this complex requires a lot of research because i also code stuff so it's not foreing to me.
I guess some artists are really against the technology as a whole because of the preconception that it's "literally stealing" from them but at the core of the protest is the fact that the spaces usually allocated for them and their craft are being overrun by people that are mass producing stuff by just typing some words on a text box, and pretending that somehow using such technology is the same as someone who actually spent years maybe trying to get their skill to that point.
It's simple self interest. The artists want money. Competition is bad for their money.
When understanding human beings, be as cynical as possible, then imagine something worse.
I wouldn't hate artists so much if they didn't act like their self interests were a moral imperative.
>My enjoyment of the product was enhanced beacuse i learned the background about it, it was no longer just about the final product.
And the technology that produces the final product, and what went into making that technology, is the background about it. At least, in the case of AI-generated art.
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@NEETzsche @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @book
Yeah the technology is cool i've been saying it on another posts, to me is no short of a miracle and i still have problems wraping my head about how it works, i'm not at all against the technologic side of things.
The problem is when some people that only care about the final result of the thing pretend that typing some words in a text box is as valid as someone who spent years practicing and enhanching their craft, and now these people are overruning the spaces that always were reserved for artists.
I think most artists wouldn't have a problem with it if there were some kind of site that would concentrate this kind of content and give it the proper space to not make real artists and their fans lose importance amid mass produced stuff.
