Herace Siinclaiir 
If only Da would join in but that website is a lost fucking cause....i gave up on DA way long time ago when Wix acquire the website.
Also how can you offer NFT / DA "protection" and generated ai art services at the same time??????empty.png
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@siinclaiir they care about artists but not enough to not profit out of them it seems.
To be honest, i think it's the users, the ARTISTS, and not the companies, who are gonna steer the trend to the good way. More people need to join these voices that demand to artists to be respected in the spaces created for them, and even more if such sites already ask money for premium treatement.
@book @siinclaiir If people don't care abour artist, then they don't care about art, they just like "pretty things"
That's some bullshit. If art requires meta knowledge than art has no inherent value.
@Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @book
Yes, if you only care about the final result then art is meaningless.
The final result is the only part that has meaning. A half finished drawing in inherently less valuable than a finished one, and the finished piece can and should be evaluated separate from other considerations.
@Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @book
If people only care about the final result and do not care about the motivations and struggles that are behind it, then it's something that will end up fading over time because it's something that's just "there".
There's this album by Metallica called "St. Anger" that every fan of Metallica likes to hate, and they hate it because to them it sounds awful and very different of what Metallica was doing until them.,
If you are someone who only cares about the final resul the story ends here, the album is shit, discarded, next thing.
But then this documental called "Some Kind of Monster" comes along which is all about how this album was produced, and you end up seeing that there was a lot of struggle, change and internal conflict present in the making of this album, then the album suddenly takes another dimension, you pay more attention to the lyrics and the sounds ad then you see this struggle reflected on the sounds being produced by the band.
The majority of fans still likes to discard the album and they go to the more clinically produced albums because "they sound better", and since they don't really appreciate the band, just what they produce, they fail to see that there's something to appreciate right there.
To me, it became my favourite album of them ever.
@book @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir
My enjoyment of the product was enhanced beacuse i learned the background about it, it was no longer just about the final product. Otherwise it would have been discarded as another thing.
Paradoxically, the least albums that i like about the band are the ones that were created during the phase of "well, i guess we're big now so we have to keep producing more". That usually have the most classic and commercial hits.
> it was no longer just about the final product. Otherwise it would have been discarded as another thing.
I cannot parse any meaning in this sequence of words.
You care about the product. The song. You like the song.
@book @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir
*sigh* yes dude whatever i only care about the product.
I should write less walls of text if people aren't gonna spend a brain cell trying to understand trhem.
It actually takes a lot of brain cells to cut all of the useless words out of your posts and find the core argumentative claims.
@book @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir That's a nice way of saying "i don't care about what you say lel."
My response is a substantive response to everything substantive you said.
Yeah i saw that a mile ahead, but you have very good solid points.
Implying producing the AIs that generate this art is some trivial task. I guarantee you, it’s way more of an accomplishment to write one of these AIs than it is to produce art at the level they generate. There’s your background on how the art was made.
These artists need to git gud, and I don’t doubt for one second that they will. But only after they’re done whining that their generic anime tiddy “creations” or whatever are now something that can be generated by a fucking computer program.
@NEETzsche @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @book
Yeah but my argument doesn't really touch the engineering part of the technology which i can't really say anything about, i know that coding something this complex requires a lot of research because i also code stuff so it's not foreing to me.
I guess some artists are really against the technology as a whole because of the preconception that it's "literally stealing" from them but at the core of the protest is the fact that the spaces usually allocated for them and their craft are being overrun by people that are mass producing stuff by just typing some words on a text box, and pretending that somehow using such technology is the same as someone who actually spent years maybe trying to get their skill to that point.
It's simple self interest. The artists want money. Competition is bad for their money.
When understanding human beings, be as cynical as possible, then imagine something worse.
I wouldn't hate artists so much if they didn't act like their self interests were a moral imperative.
>My enjoyment of the product was enhanced beacuse i learned the background about it, it was no longer just about the final product.
And the technology that produces the final product, and what went into making that technology, is the background about it. At least, in the case of AI-generated art.
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@NEETzsche @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @book
Yeah the technology is cool i've been saying it on another posts, to me is no short of a miracle and i still have problems wraping my head about how it works, i'm not at all against the technologic side of things.
The problem is when some people that only care about the final result of the thing pretend that typing some words in a text box is as valid as someone who spent years practicing and enhanching their craft, and now these people are overruning the spaces that always were reserved for artists.
I think most artists wouldn't have a problem with it if there were some kind of site that would concentrate this kind of content and give it the proper space to not make real artists and their fans lose importance amid mass produced stuff.
>Implying producing the AIs that generate this art is some trivial task. I guarantee you, it’s way more of an accomplishment to write one of these AIs than it is to produce art at the level they generate.
Nobody is saying that at all in this thread. Of course its more impressive a group of people was able to make an the AI. However whats not impressive is making art by typing words in a prompt. Obviously artists have an issue with that aspect, regardless if its fine art or anime tiddies.
>Obviously artists have an issue with that aspect,
Do they have a legitimate issue though, or merely a greedy and entitled one?
It’s about as legitimate as anybody else whose job got automated away. How legitimate was it then?
Well, the funny thing is, I’m not even of the view that artists are going to be truly automated away. I’ve seen what these AIs can do and it’s really flawed. Artists will need to modify the output forever, given the current algorithms, and no amount of dataset or training will fix that. So what these AIs will do is increase the output of artists, since they can run the script and then edit the output.
Furthermore, what these AIs generate is pretty cookie-cutter. You run a few prompts on even the most sophisticated of these and you can figure out what it’s like. I’ve already seen people announce intuitively which AI generated a particular image like it’s an artist: “That’s a Midjourney.”
So the real talent of artists in the future might be formulating new styles to generate and then keeping that style a secret so other AIs can’t replicate it.
But this whining about AI generated art is like whining about the emergence of the assembly line.
Right. That’s fair. I’ve done some basic stuff where I draw like a doddle that’s in roughly the right shape as the image input and have it fill in the details for me, and that technique actually works quite well.
All that being said, just imagine being offended that your hyper-generic art non-style can be rendered totally redundant by some computer program that the general population can access for $10/mo.
Lol fair enough. Most people just changed their line of work when the industrial revolution hit. It was like living through 2008; had to learn new skillz and git gud. If your average person lost at life over the industrial revolution, then the luddites would have won. So automation doesn’t even produce mass obsolescence like people think. Not really.
I take it from this that you’re not going to be too happy when the Cyberpunk 2077 theme becomes the national anthem, since the transhumanism shit is just around the corner, for real this time.
Except it's just gonna be the gayest aspects of cyberpunk... Like even more power in corporate hands, implants that inject you automatically with SSRIs and other feel good drugs, ocular implants, but their only use is to watch porn, more faggots, horrible aesthetics, especially in cars and clothing, etc.
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@berkberkman @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @NEETzsche @book Yeah i hope the AI puts all the calarts crowd out of business, ironically speaking(?)
What i think is that AI is not gonna go away anythime soon, and short of that, AI is gonna be more present in everyday life as time goes on.
What i advocate in the case of AI generated images are:
Firstly that people realize that these tools can be ethically used and far from their use being discouraged, people and artists should be educated about it. Since the technology is new, you have to tell people that just because you have a gun you shouldn't be around shooting people because you like it.
I advocate for places where this content can be posted without making noise to the places where artists post theirs tuff, so to not make their craft less relevant, moreover, in places that were from the start dedicated to them.
I want to artists to flesh out more their art because i want to people also to appreciate the art because of all the dimensions that come with it, and not beacuse is something aesthtically pleasing (or not pleasing but provocative), but because there's actual craft and skill behind them.
if only that could happen, ill say the only way combating Ai image Gen is to create something that detects these images.
I wonder if there's any artifacts left behind when a file is generated. I mean database still getting breached so im sure eventually something like that will pop up eventually. The outrage is there so im sure a group of people will emerge and develop this soon.
I think the disconnect we're having is that I believe the craft of making an art is valuable insofar as it helps get to a finished product. Knowing that an author redrafted 200 times can be a good lesson for someone trying to learn to write, but the finished product is the same no mater how many tries it took to get there. I'm fine with machine learning art being segregated from human made art, or being marked as such (a more realistic and better solution I think in most cases). But I won't turn down a piece of art because of how it was made.
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@berkberkman @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @NEETzsche @book what if the end result of the expression of crazyness and countless hours of sleep deprivation is a butt
Boards of Canada - Magic Window.opus
@berkberkman @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @NEETzsche @book
Okay, but post the original mix, not the Radio Edit version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrlKxV5KWJo
These kinds of “points” or “statements” are trash 100% of the time. They are defeated by retarded DALL-E Mini meme dumps in terms of artistic genius.
@Reluctant_Weeb @berkberkman @siinclaiir @NEETzsche @book
The disconnect we're having is because of the notion that we should call anything art, even if it's something that comes from the depths of the chaos, just because WE as spectator find meaning on it even if it doesn't have it in the first place.
To me, art is the expression not only of the human as a sentient being, but also as the expression of the countless hours spent in trying to improve a skill and ALSO the inherent meaning that the author has for a certain piece. That's why even while some animals can be trained to paint, i hardly would call those pieces art, but a mere novelty.
If a certain piece does not have these kind of elements then to me it should not be called art, because we end in the danger of calling a banana straped to the wall a piece of art, or a toilet, or an intrincate drawing of a photorealistic eye copied from a photo by someone using a pencil which has a lot of skill but practically no inherent creative intention.
And so, to me any image generated using AI tools cannot be called art, simply because it lacks humane intervention AND lacks skill and craft, even if the person writing the prompt has meaning behind it.And because it cannot be called art, it should not be lumped with the rest of the pieces that do have it.
@berkberkman @Reluctant_Weeb @siinclaiir @NEETzsche @book That's why i want artists to flesh out their art their craft and intentions, because as things are now, people who does AI stuff cannot provide background to their pieces, just the end result.
If someone who does not provide any background (to to their pieces or to their skill) starts putting out all of these things in three months, out of the blue, it's very easy to explose it as a fraud if artists start regularly posting stuff like timelapses, sketches and stuff like that.
>If someone who does not provide any background (to to their pieces or to their skill) starts putting out all of these things in three months, out of the blue, it's very easy to explose it as a fraud if artists start regularly posting stuff like timelapses, sketches and stuff like that.
Why would I give a shit if the nice image I like looking at is "fraud?"
Just mention in your profile your methods if it matters that much.
Yes, that is something I cannot get behind. Calling something art doesn't give it validation, it is a simple classification to separate it from practical media. I will not stand to see the label of art used as a means to put down pieces you don't like. A banana taped to a wall is a sculpture, as is a toilet made of gold. I do however make a distinction between adaptations and original works, and the example of a photo remade by hand would be an adaptation, but still art. I will not put myself or anyone else in the position to decree what is and isn't art. Either it all is or none of it is.
@Reluctant_Weeb @berkberkman @siinclaiir @NEETzsche @book well, it's my opinion in the end, so of course t's subjective, but i think we oughta start thinking on a more proper and adequate definition to it, giving the state of the matter at hand as of now.
Yeah thats a good way to put it.
> On one hand, I understand that I should support artists and cartoonists that make a nicer burger.
I don't.
I think the advent of AI (demonic) art making artistry uneconomical as a career path is the best thing that could possibly happen to art and is, as are all things, divinely inspired providence.
If you only care about art because of the story behind it you don't care about the art, but the story behind it.
>If people only care about the final result and do not care about the motivations and struggles that are behind it, then it's something that will end up fading over time because it's something that's just "there".
This is just demonstrable untrue. Art is remembered because of the effect it has on people, and most people won't know anything about the production of their favorite art. Think about some of the oldest art that still remains in the public mind, now think about what you know of it's production. In most cases it'll be nothing, because nobody knows anything about it's production. Have they "faded"?
You're devaluing art as a whole by propping up mediocre products because there's a neat story behind them.
>But then this documental called "Some Kind of Monster" comes along which is all about how this album was produced, and you end up seeing that there was a lot of struggle, change and internal conflict present in the making of this album, then the album suddenly takes another dimension, you pay more attention to the lyrics and the sounds ad then you see this struggle reflected on the sounds being produced by the band.
You learned more about the product and it enhanced your enjoyment of the product. It's still the product you are enjoying.