To this day, I have no fucking idea how could Trans debate hone so insanely wrong. No matter how long I do spend on the topic, I cannot wrap my head around this madness, but the more interesting part is, just how little good faith debate there actually is on the topic.
Fuck... Even on Abortion, there is some gray zone. I do not belong to either camp, because I know, that both sides are trying to pointlessly escalate their position to push the overton window. But the base arguments are clear. But with the trans debate, I don't even know the last time I heard 2 people try to compate the baselines.
On the question gender vs. sex. Matt Walsh (yikes) had this movie where he interviewed some respected Doctor, and she (a Jew and a conservative lol) actually argued for the difference between sex and gender: how no one can change one's sex, and how gender has become this made-up identity thing.
As for OPs point. I consider the trans movement morally nihilistic, as in they don't believe in anything, they don't have any genuine values. But everything can and will be used to push through the desired social and political changes in the service of their right to live as fake women. In the bigger picture I see it as an offshoot of Liberal ideology, and a step of the process to normalized dehumanization (freedom from.. being man/woman, being human).
@irie @ChristiJunior
Here is my point. I hate the conservative view of men. I see conservatives being proud of identifying themselves as disposable slaves on the alter of pussy, and I want to vomit.
I also hear feminists complain about being seen as a weak biological carrying pod for a breeding unit 846368. And I do see, how that would feel dehumanizing as well. Therefore, both sexes do come with an insanely negative baggage, that one would do anything to escape.
But....... Here is where I cannot bear this shit. On one hand, we have a self ID side, that decided to fucking use the same dehumanizing roles, but give you a switch button, while the other one argues for them without this magical button. So, I do understand why the troon debate is so insanely powerful driving force on both sides. But, I don't get, why is noone talking about the meta topics at all.
@LukeAlmighty @irie @ChristiJunior
I've been noticing this too. There used to be a point where liberals/progressives would argue in favor of widening how we view men and women, widening the roles and behavior that is considered normal for the sexes. Women wearing pants is a consequence of that, for example. And I was all in for that. And still am. I don't have that much of an issue with a man wearing a dress... up until they start lying about what they're doing and what they are (but I'm getting ahead of myself).
But today I feel that this approach has been eliminated. Instead, as you observe too, we're back to 2 narrow "gender" roles, with a benefit of a magic button. And as soon as you deviate even a little bit from the narrow "gender" role, you're gonna be pressured to press the magic button (and I argue that the "gender" roles are even more restrictive than they used to be, because there is something that is pressuring more and more people to press the button). It started with pressure from Tumblr, but now it's everywhere in the online sphere, it's in entertainment, it's in news media, it's in schools, it's in hospitals and mental care. I'm not sure if there's any aspect of society where you don't find this pressure to press the magic button so that your physical appearance better fits the "gender" role your personality leads you into.
If I were to meet a Hulk Hogan in his prime looking guy, in a sexy red dress, I'd obviously ask him "what's with the dress?". If he answered, in a normal male voice, "I just felt like trying this out", I wouldn't give two shits about it. I'd go "huh. ok. Have a good one." and go on with my day. That's the framework I live my life in, that allows men and women to be flexible.
But I see so many "progressives" who just at hearing such a scenario would go "well clearly this Hulk Hogan looking guy is an egg that needs cracking" (if you don't know the terminology, and "egg" is a person that needs to be "enlightened" or rather convinced that they're actually trans). And I find such an approach evil. Because these people ultimately can't help themselves but want to manipulate and change other people to fit their mental image of the world, instead of just accepting them as they are.
And then there's the people who wear the red dress who will lie to me about why they wear the dress. Liberals of old would have agreed that something as simple as a dress isn't what makes someone a woman. But today, that's what the trans movement pretends happens.
You have people who put on a long wig, some red lipstick and a dress, and then claim they're a woman because of it. No, you're not. You felt like wearing those things, because your atypical personality leads you to liking those things, and that's fine with me. If you could only be honest with me, and more importantly, with yourself, nobody would care. I don't care if you're a male that wants to live his life as a woman, as long as you're honest that this is what you're doing. But people are not honest. They lie. They start claiming that they ARE women.
Be honest with people, and be honest with yourself. If you're a feminine man, that's fine. We had reached the point where that was acceptable. We had reached the point where doubting the manliness of a feminine man was an insult. But now somehow people are back to rejecting the possibility of feminine men existing. "No, they're trans-women" says the progressive. And the insulting part is trying to affirm the manliness of a feminine man.
This has made me HATE the trans ideology with a burning passion.
