@graf that's the reason why i said if i ever got rich i'd fund it lmao, i'm definitely not a person that could code something like that.

@beardalaxy if you find somebody who wants to let me know

@graf but i will keep this in mind in case i stumble upon anyone

@beardalaxy @graf I probably could, but I don't think PHP (the only server-side language I'm proficient in) would be a good language for this.

@beardalaxy @graf Okay, maybe I could whip something simple up. I can't promise any paywalled content because I'm not familiar with any payment processor or crypto APIs.

I haven't messed with backend dev in a while though. I'm just afraid that whatever I create won't be scalable.

@xianc78 @graf yeah, i'm thinking of something like itch.io but free from censorship, only with opt-in tags for more "objectionable content" instead of just a general "adult" rating system or whatever. and also mod hubs for games of course, both ones hosted on and off the site.

a lot of sites like these end up not garnering lots of traction because they get a lot of extremist (or "extremist") content on them, which leads people to not want to use them. if you had to opt-in to see any of that i think it would make it much more compelling to visit for most people. there are lots of boorus that already do this and they don't really have any issues. they just require an account, and require opt-in.

as far as payment goes, if we're just talking mods then the only real option is to just have donation links. games are a lot trickier and would probably have to be crypto. you could always just let the game authors handle it themselves though i suppose and just use the website as a means of pushing their game out to more people, you know what i mean?

i don't expect anyone to just randomly start working on this and hosting it though lol. it was really just a thought that i had floating around after seeing more mods being banned for stupid fucking reasons.

@beardalaxy @xianc78 @graf >a lot of sites like these end up not garnering lots of traction because they get a lot of extremist (or "extremist") content on them, which leads people to not want to use them. if you had to opt-in to see any of that i think it would make it much more compelling to visit for most people. there are lots of boorus that already do this and they don't really have any issues. they just require an account, and require opt-in.

This is one way the fedi took off in both controversial circles and more mainstream ones. Hosting a Mastodon/fedi server isn't a red flag because a lot of normies use it. It's the same reason Japanese art sites that happen to host lolisho draw vastly less heat than an art site designed solely to host this content (see InkBunny, and Baraag's rep here).

@beardalaxy @graf I was also thinking something like itch.io. I had an idea of creating an indie game marketplace for a while, but my lack of knowledge with online payment processing and the difficulty of hosting a service with large files prevents me from implementing it. I could use something like WebTorrent to save server space, but that would mean that people can easily just share the magnet URIs and download whatever they want on the site for free (assuming the know the correct URI).

Now that I think about it. I think @alex was thinking about creating a NewGrounds spiritual successor. Not necessarily a marketplace like itch.io, but I think he could incorporate some of your ideas (likes mods or commercial games) into it.

@xianc78 @graf @alex I don't think it necessarily has to have a commercial element to it beyond just donating and stuff. Certainly not from the beginning.

Like I said, it might be better to just let the creators handle that sort of thing at least at first. RPGMaker.net is a good example of that, they don't have any way of commercializing a game directly but let you link to somewhere that does. Could also always go back to like, the shareware days where a demo is hosted and if you send mail with payment they'll send you the game or something xD that would legit be pretty funny. I mean, fuckin Mullvad lets you do that so why not an indie dev? xD

But yeah, I'd be down with a NG spiritual successor. NG itself is already pretty damn good and always has been tbh, there are rules and things they don't allow of course but it's still a really good place to show off your creativity in a place that's not so corporate. but it'd be dope to have a place like that which actually allows a lot more stuff. i like the community aspect of it and it's pretty much the only place that has star rankings anymore xD

@beardalaxy @graf @alex
>Like I said, it might be better to just let the creators handle that sort of thing at least at first. RPGMaker.net is a good example of that, they don't have any way of commercializing a game directly but let you link to somewhere that does.

I think GameJolt used to be like an engine-agnostic YoYoGames or RPGMaker.net, but in recent years, they allowed commercial games on their platform, so they are more like itch.io these days.

>Could also always go back to like, the shareware days where a demo is hosted and if you send mail with payment they'll send you the game or something xD that would legit be pretty funny. I mean, fuckin Mullvad lets you do that so why not an indie dev? xD

There are newer games for older computers/operating systems that do that just for nostalgia purposes, though I think they are payed through things like PayPal.

>But yeah, I'd be down with a NG spiritual successor. NG itself is already pretty damn good and always has been tbh

I never used it much tbh. It seemed like all the flash game creators on there eventually got their own websites, so I was on those sites more. (kind of weird that the exact opposite is happening today with everyone posting on Big Tech platforms, but I guess people eventually realized that they can monetize their games by self-hosting and putting banner-ads) I also played more of the "professional-quality" flash games like the ones on AddictingGames, MiniClip, and XGEN. Most of those games were developed by actual companies, though they are probably considered indie by today's standards.

>there are rules and things they don't allow of course but it's still a really good place to show off your creativity in a place that's not so corporate.

Didn't they bend the knee to BLM? I remember everyone bitching about how they brought back Tankman just for a BLM virtue signalling video. I think they also had an influx of Tumblr users back when Tumblr banned porn, so the culture might have changed.

@xianc78 no idea tbh. I only went back in the last couple of years. It seems like it's maybe more lax than something like YouTube generally speaking, and then it has porn there too lmao. You're unlikely to get away with "hateful content" or loli, but pretty much everything else seems to fly. I have seen animations there that some freaks would be like "that's racist/sexist!" when really it's just being done for comedy, that kind of thing.

@beardalaxy It seems like they are really only known for FNF and their Flash emulator now.

@beardalaxy @graf Call me crazy, but I've actually started working on it. I'm just DESPERATE to put something on my resume. I only have parts of the front-end done, but the thing is written in PHP with the navbar and footer loaded dynamically.

@xianc78 @graf holy based you're a madman

@beardalaxy @graf I just got the database partially working. Actual file uploads aren't support yet and the logos are obviously placeholders. I'm going for a Wii Shop Channel inspired layout.

I'm actually feeling really guilty about this because this shows how much free time I actually have, but this is good resume experience and that's how I justify it.

@xianc78 @beardalaxy if you get it done ill pick up some hardware but you guys are gonna have to come up with a name

@graf I'll let @beardalaxy decide. It was his idea after all.

@xianc78 @graf uhhh give me a bit to think about it lol. I'd be more than happy to field submissions as well.

@beardalaxy @graf What do you think about these names?

@xianc78 @graf hmm, I can't help but think they all just sound exactly like other sites but sightly tweaked, which makes sense because it's chat gpt. It'd be better to have something more unique if possible. Then again, all of my creativity is going towards other things right now lmao. I might think up something good.

@beardalaxy @graf Got the submit form, but the script to handle the form hasn't been written yet.

@xianc78 @graf it's just a concept I know, but remember content filters and maybe let them choose what platform their upload is for with a dropdown too you know? Would be cool if the site could support homebrew as well.
I know this is for game submissions but as far as mods go it would definitely need a few more options too :)
But you're doing crazy work!

@xianc78 @graf just noticed your login name lol

@beardalaxy @graf I just banged at the keyboard when writing it down. I wasn't even thinking about Gondola.

@beardalaxy @graf I still have content filters in mind. I just haven't implemented them yet. I was thinking that tags can be used to filter content. I know that there are some people who don't mind seeing NSFW games, but don't want to see loli or furry shit, so yeah I plan on including them.

I plan on having a separate submission page for mods.

@xianc78 @graf dope, dope x)

tags would work for it yeah, just as long as the stuff like loli or whatever is opt-in instead of opt-out. Whitelist instead of blacklist, kind of thing :)

@beardalaxy @graf Okay, having multiple platforms in a drop-down will be easier said than done, due to the way SQL tables work.

For mods, I might need two database tables for them. One for the mods themselves and another one for the games the mods were made for (since mods will also be for games not hosted on the site).

@xianc78 @graf you're the man, i don't know shit about this stuff lol

@beardalaxy @graf Also remember that features don't have to be implemented right away. It's best to start small.

I was thinking of having an "other" option for anything that's not Windows, macOS, or Linux because when I though of fedi gamedevs, I remembered that @crunklord420 makes TempleOS games. However, if I implement it that way there would only be one "other" category which might be a problem if you support multiple obscure platforms.

How does itch.io implement this? I know that they officially support Windows, macOS, and Linux, but I see a few homebrew games on there.

@xianc78 @graf @crunklord420 For their genres, they are more specifically defined, which is good imo. There are only like 15 or so of them, plus "no genre" and "other."

Then they have tags, which can be anything you want although it will pop up with suggestions (probably based on what other people have put in there).

Itch.io actually only has 4 selectable platforms, being Windows, Mac OS, Linux, and Android. That's for each download. You can also just select no platform for your download at all, in which case you'd probably just want to specify in the file name itself. Or, somewhere in the tags/description if it is integral to your game. So I think an "Other" option would likely be totally fine.

@beardalaxy @graf @crunklord420 Yeah and if they have multiple obscure ports, they can bundle them all in the same zip file.

@beardalaxy @graf Script now handles submissions, but still no file uploads (still trying decide how to store them). You can also now browse by genre and a view game page has been created.

@beardalaxy @graf Uploads have now been implemented along with logos and screenshots. I just need to include tags, patch any possible exploits, and then I can move onto mods.

@xianc78 @graf damn dude you're making very quick work of this

@beardalaxy @graf I can't believe myself either. But my biggest fear is that someone else finds some exploit that can break the site.

@beardalaxy @graf Tags have now been added, but they don't do anything yet.

@beardalaxy @graf Added a profile view. Right now, it only shows a list of games published by the user.

@beardalaxy @graf Profiles now have bios. This bio is just taken from a random MobyGames page.

(Ian Fisch, if you are reading this, I hope you don't mind.)

@beardalaxy @graf I am now proud to say that tag-filtering has now been implemented.

@beardalaxy @graf Working on an edit game page and an admin control panel right now.

@beardalaxy @graf I'm still working on the site. I was working on my game and was busy with work for the past week. I'm trying to make it that you can upload more than 3 screenshots (I realized that there is a better way to do it).

@beardalaxy @graf You can now upload more than 3 screenshots. Previously, the game table in the database had 3 columns for screenshots. Now, screenshots are in their own table.

@beardalaxy @graf I'm currently patching some possible SQL injection exploits. After that, I will move on to mods.

@berkberkman i can't actually get basedmods to work, idk what's up with the site but nothing really shows up.

haven't heard of this one though. seems legit. it's nice to have something like this although it's not quite what i have in mind.

@beardalaxy BasedMods doesn't allow loli/shota mods, while Modding Haven seems to allow it (there's a "birthday suit" mod for A Hat in Time). That might change if the site gets taken down.

@berkberkman >basedmods
>isn't based

happens every time

@icedquinn i think you might be overestimating the amount of DDOSing and targeted campaigns that actually happen to places that host objectionable content. it's usually only sites that embroil themselves in crazy drama that this kind of shit happens to.

like i was saying in another post, there are boorus that have stuff like cub and loli on them but you need to be logged in and need to opt in to see them. i don't think they've had any major issues.

@Mr_NutterButter the fact that overwatch doesn't have pve is ridiculous tbh. huge missed opportunity.

@beardalaxy funny enough. Their new limited time game mode cosmic crisis uses the assets of the scraped PVE enemies and they're actually fairly decently fun to fight.

But the games PVE enemies doesn't have the complexities that a game like destiny 2 or other looter shooters have.

But if they pivoted more into the wave-based mode similar to Man versus machine in TF2 I think they could have pulled it all specially with the idea of talents as perchables upgrades on a mission I think they had a good idea of what they wanted to accomplish but I think they were fitting it into the wrong box.

@beardalaxy I think the reason why I would be able to make a true competitor to these two games because I understand what a lot of competitors don't about this genre.

1. Above everything the characters need to be oozing personality that people can attach to they have to be interesting and not one-dimensional in any capacity. Their entire kit needs to reflect their personality and the characters should constantly be interacting with each other in the game.

2 hero kits need to be extremely diverse and no hero should feel even close to playing like another hero.

3. Cut down on particle effects the less particle effects for an ability the cleaner it looks the better.

4. Gameplay needs to be quick but not so overwhelming with so many movement abilities that it makes people feel like they're in arena shooter in quake playing for the championship.

5. Gun sound is extremely important if the guns don't feel satisfying to shoot then everything is dog shit.

6. Game needs to be chaotic enough to where you can't tell if it's your fault if you lose or not.

7. Gameplay should be a mix between MOBA and FPS however leaning too far into either genre greatly damages the end product.

8. Cinematics, short stories, comics and social media posts are an absolute MUST to get people attached to the characters! This is probably the most important part that almost every game that tries in this genre fails miserably.

9. If you're going to have a stun or any deployables in the game you better have an extremely good reason for it. Putting it in a character's kit just because it's not a valid reason.

10. Voice actors who the oozing personality and are consistently able to come back for constant recordings is an absolute must in the game will die if you can't do this.

I believe these are the most important things to make a hero shooter game there of course a lot of micro things too but these are just a big key points that I see a lot of people fail who try to get into this genre.

Oh I almost forgot one more.

Someone who has never played an FPS or MOBA game in their entire life should be able to get a kill or contribute heavily to game with minimal effort.

Because if overwatch an TF2 has taught me anything. If a complete moron who has never touched a game in their entire life can give a 3K than anything's possible with good game design.