@xianc78
sounds like you've come back around to distributism.

Where people have communities with their own micropolities.

@shebang @icedquinn @herag @kerosene @cee @vera @matthew @0x520 @maksimilian_stepniakov @waltercool @ardaissad @lanodan @Indigo @top @Alex

@Andrii @matthew@helladoge.com @herag @ardaissad @Alex @Indigo @maksimilian_stepniakov @vera @0x520 @top @lanodan @kerosene @waltercool @cee @shebang @icedquinn Well I haven't looked that much into Distributism. As long as there isn't a centralized state controlling these micropolities, then that would be fine. I might go with libertarian distributist or anarcho-distributist.

I kind of find it strange. Despite being raised Catholic, I've never heard about Distributism until recently. Most Catholics I know tend to be pro-capitalist but are more willing to work out of the kindness of their heart than for profit.

@xianc78 capitalism and profit are not inherently evil and i think most people's idea of capitalism is basically "market systems" and that's probably the extent of it.

i don't know what people are criticizing half the time when they go on and on about capitalism evil and its like

okay but the adam smith argument is that specialization means more shit for everyone. to which profit is basically there to pay for the opportunity cost of not being able to do the other stuff you wanted

@Andrii @matthew @herag @ardaissad @Alex @Indigo @maksimilian_stepniakov @vera @0x520 @top @lanodan @kerosene @waltercool @cee @shebang

Logan, [2022-02-07 8:56 AM]
Interesting factoid I learned is that to maintain industrial civilization need 12 barrels of oil to come out of the ground for every 1 barrel used during extraction.

Logan, [2022-02-07 8:58 AM]
"In the 1960s, for every barrel consumed, the industry discovered six new ones. Today, with an ever more efficient technology, the world consumes seven barrels for each barrel discovered."

Logan, [2022-02-07 9:02 AM]
"The world is now using 27 billion barrels of oil a year. If every last drop of the remaining 1 trillion barrels could be extracted at current cost ratios and current rates of production—which is extremely unlikely—the entire endowment would last only another thirty-seven years."
From "The Long Emergency" by James Kunstler (2005)

Unaccaptable Jo 🇿🇦🇨🇦, [2022-02-07 9:05 AM]
Extremely unlikely - because? Are we going to extract it sooner than that do you think?

Logan, [2022-02-07 9:08 AM]
[In reply to Unaccaptable Jo 🇿🇦🇨🇦]
Lol, nah cause it gets more expensive the closer you get to the bottom. At some point you need to burn a barrel of oil to get a barrel of oil, so it is futile.

Unaccaptable Jo 🇿🇦🇨🇦, [2022-02-07 9:10 AM]
I understand ! Do you not think our oil reserves are more than they're telling us?

Logan, [2022-02-07 9:12 AM]
[In reply to Unaccaptable Jo 🇿🇦🇨🇦]
Nope, they are most likey much less. They have incentive to pretend they have more.

@icedquinn

"The problem is that our modern societies need a minimum EROI to maintain all the services currently offered to the population. The principle of energy use is roughly the following: we first allocate all the energy surplus we have to the tasks essential for our survival, such as food production, building and heating our habitats, making our clothes, and running health systems in the cities. Then we split the remaining balance between the systems of justice, national security, defence, social security, health and education. Finally, if we have any energy surplus left, we use it for our entertainment (tourism, cinema, etc.).
Today, the minimum EROI to provide all of these services has been assessed as within a range of between 12:1 and 13:1.54 In other words, there is a threshold beneath which we should not venture unless we are prepared to decide collectively – and with all the difficulties that this implies – which services are to be maintained and which it will be necessary to give up.55 With an average EROI in decline for fossil fuels, and an EROI of no more than 12:1 for the majority of renewable energies, we are coming dangerously close to this threshold."
From "How Everything can Collapse"

Logan, [2022-02-07 9:16 AM]
"At the beginning of the twentieth century, US oil had a fantastic EROI of 100:1 (for one unit of energy invested, one hundred units were recovered). You hardly needed to start digging before the oil started gushing. In 1990, it had fallen to only 35:1, and today it is about 11:1.43 As a comparison, the average EROI of the world production of conventional oil is between 10:1 and 20:1.44 In the United States, the EROI for oil sands lies between 2:1 and 4:1, that for agrofuels between 1:1 and 1.6:1 (10:1 in the case of ethanol made from cane sugar), and for nuclear power between 5:1 and 15:1.45 The EROI for coal is about 50:1 (in China, 27:1), for shale oil about 5:1 and for natural gas about 10:1.46 All these EROIs are not only declining, but declining at an accelerating rate since it is always necessary to dig deeper and deeper, go further out to sea and use ever more expensive techniques and infrastructures so as to maintain the level of production. Think, for example, of the energy that would be needed to inject thousands of tons of CO2 or fresh water into ageing deposits, and the roads that would need to be built, and the kilometres that would have to be covered in order to reach the remote areas of Siberia...."
From "How Everything can Collapse" (2015)


@xianc78 @0x520 @Alex @Indigo @ardaissad @cee @herag @kerosene @lanodan @maksimilian_stepniakov @matthew @shebang @top @vera @waltercool

"In the United States, concentrated solar power (those big mirrors in the desert) produces a yield of around 1.6:1. Photovoltaics in Spain produce around 2.5:1.47 As for wind power, it initially seems to offer a better yield of about 18:1.48 Sadly, these figures do not take into account the intermittent nature of this type of energy and the need to back it up with a storage system or thermal power plant. If we take this into account, the EROI for wind turbines comes down to 3.8:1.49 Only hydroelectricity apparently offers a comfortable yield of between 35:1 and 49:1. But besides the fact that this type of production seriously disrupts natural habitats,50 a recent study has shown that 3,700 projects underway or planned across the world would increase global electricity production by only 2 per cent (from 16 per cent to 18 per cent).51
In short, renewable energy does not have the potential to offset the decline in fossil fuel, and there are not enough fossil fuels (or ores) to massively develop renewable energies so as to offset the predicted decline in fossil fuels."
From "How Everything can Collapse" (2015)

@icedquinn @0x520 @Alex @Indigo @ardaissad @cee @herag @kerosene @lanodan @maksimilian_stepniakov @matthew @shebang @top @vera @waltercool @xianc78

Here's the thing: if you force me to participate in any form of socialized program, aka take my money without my consent, you're violating my rights straight up. And that's the opposite of anarchism. It is VERY clear. If you chose to live under a socialized system, that's your choice. Do what makes you happy.

@icedquinn @herag @shebang @kerosene @cee @vera @xianc78 @matthew @0x520 @maksimilian_stepniakov @waltercool @ardaissad @lanodan @Indigo @Andrii @Alex

@Andrii @matthew@helladoge.com @herag @ardaissad @Alex @Indigo @maksimilian_stepniakov @vera @0x520 @top @lanodan @kerosene @waltercool @cee @shebang @icedquinn
If Distributism favors localism over nationalism and globalism, then I think you might be interested in the seasteading movement. It's mostly comprised of ancaps and other right-libertarians but it's meant for anyone to make their ideology a reality.

Distributists might be especially interested since seasteading can lead to self-sustainable communities.

https://www.seasteading.org/

@xianc78
Yeah I'm familiar with seasteading and was into it for a while, but based on my research seasteads suffer the same problem as boats, they sink. So land is much better and more reliable place for making 'steads.

The Hutterites and Amish being good examples. My plan is a similar approach but with food forests, and a larger repository of knowledge and technology.

@matthew @herag @ardaissad @Alex @Indigo @maksimilian_stepniakov @vera @0x520 @top @lanodan @kerosene @waltercool @cee @shebang @icedquinn

@Andrii @matthew@helladoge.com @herag @ardaissad @Alex @Indigo @maksimilian_stepniakov @vera @0x520 @top @lanodan @kerosene @waltercool @cee @shebang @icedquinn Well, I wish you the best of luck.

@icedquinn @herag @shebang @kerosene @cee @vera @xianc78 @matthew @0x520 @waltercool @ardaissad @lanodan @Indigo @top @Andrii @Alex people who accept someone above them are lower than dirt